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Think us sh*thouse lawyers could make this a little more complicated?

The door is not a issue either way.

The standard is.... Would a reasonable person knowing what you knew at the moment you pulled the trigger be in real fear of his or her life? The relative location of the shooter the door and the criminal is not a issue.

States do vary however. In CA. A home owner may resist violent entry to his or her home with whatever force is needed and no more.
Further more a person having used deadly force in his or her home in CA to stop a violent break in or reacting to a violent entry that has taken place is PRESUMED by law to be in fear of his or her life unless there is rebutting evidence or the person shot was known to the shooter.

No where in in the CA penal code does it even mention a door. Do other states differ a lot from the California Penal code?
 

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Originally posted by sadsack:
Think us sh*thouse lawyers could make this a little more complicated?

The door is not a issue either way.

The standard is.... Would a reasonable person knowing what you knew at the moment you pulled the trigger be in real fear of his or her life? The relative location of the shooter the door and the criminal is not a issue.

States do vary however. In CA. A home owner may resist violent entry to his or her home with whatever force is needed and no more.
Further more a person having used deadly force in his or her home in CA to stop a violent break in or reacting to a violent entry that has taken place is PRESUMED by law to be in fear of his or her life unless there is rebutting evidence or the person shot was known to the shooter.

No where in in the CA penal code does it even mention a door. Do other states differ a lot from the California Penal code?

198.5. Any person using force intended or likely to cause death or
great bodily injury within his or her residence shall be presumed to
have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great
bodily injury to self, family, or a member of the household when that
force is used against another person, not a member of the family or
household, who unlawfully and forcibly enters or has unlawfully and
forcibly entered the residence and the person using the force knew or
had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry occurred.

As used in this section, great bodily injury means a significant
or substantial physical injury.

Now that we have reviewed the correct section you will note that there is a requirement that the person you are about to shoot is not a member of your family or household. You can't know that for sure until you have looked at the target, thus shooting through the door would not be justifiable.

Now, I am about to give you a piece of information that they don’t teach you in PC 832 classes or a CCW class here in California. ALL presumptions in California are rebuttable. The short of it is this, just because the penal code says it is presumed doesn’t mean it is. The introduction of facts at trial is allowed that would refute the presumption and thus your protection under that presumption can go right out the window.

Certain diseases are presumed to be job related however the defense can introduce evidence at a workers comp hearing that shows that factors other than a persons employment contributed to the disease and thus the presumption is rebutted and the disease is no longer solely presumed to have been contracted in the course and scope of employment.

It is extremely hazardous to your freedom and/or financial health to be a sh*thouse lawyer.

The long and the short of it is you better know what the hell you are shooting at.
 

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Originally posted by Patrickl:

The long and the short of it is you better know what the hell you are shooting at.

This should have been the standard answer to the initial thread - I still can't believe the discussion that went on over that one. Thanks for stating it so simply once again in this thread.
 

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LOL...I thought we DID say that!

...sheesh...Here lately, you get the idea that no one is listening to anything that anyone else says?

...Time for the big meteor or somethin'...

I've a client that works with kids all the time and says he sees this everyday...

...He thinks it's somethin' in the water...


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>>>>>>>>>>g2<<<<<<<<<<

I Like The Shade Too!
 

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I really never thought of a good reason to shoot through the door in the first place. If you wait for the intruder with the safety off and the gun aimed at the door, you already have all the tactical advantages you'll ever need. Even if it were completely legal, I still wouldn't shoot until after I identified the target.
 

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gyp_c, traevin,

With 67 replies and counting on the initial thread, I would'a figured that it would have ended after Patrick's and traevin's first couple replies of "wait".


Much ado about nothing.......


 

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ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ


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IceCreamSoldier............... what else is so easy to attack........
 

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So a tactically minded bad guy could kick the door off the hinges, and use it as a shield all the way in the bed! Lets not let this dead horse die!
 

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Originally posted by Electric_Armadillo:
So a tactically minded bad guy could kick the door off the hinges, and use it as a shield all the way in the bed! Lets not let this dead horse die!

Oh Gawd I really don't feel well. Anyone have an aspirin out there? Better yet, let's dispense with briefing this evening and you people just hit the streets. I need some quiet time in my office. (Now, where the hell did Sergeant Smith hide that bottle of JD????)



[This message has been edited by Patrickl (edited 06-10-2001).]
 

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EA,

Now that I think about, the guy beating on the door could be just a distraction, while his sniper buddy waits outside for a clear head shot through the bedroom window
 

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Originally posted by traevin:
EA,

Now that I think about, the guy beating on the door could be just a distraction, while his sniper buddy waits outside for a clear head shot through the bedroom window
LOL traevin
 
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