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Shot gun defense

1534 Views 17 Replies 10 Participants Last post by  ShootinSpirit
How is a folding stock for a mossberg 500 work is it a good Idea I like the Idea of a small package but if needed the stock is there. Also What kind of ammo should be used, how about slugs for defense I don't think anyone could keep on comming at you with a 12gauge slug in them.
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Defensive shotgunning is sighted fire and requires a solid stock and decent sights. I have never seen a gun with a folding stock at any school or recommended by any trainer.

Buckshot is reported to be more effective at close range, which is the shotgun's purvue. In training, one does a "slug select" for longer range shots. Longer range means the range at which your gun will no longer keep your buckshot load entirely on the target. That can vary considerably with guns and loads and targets.

The best investment you can make before buying and modifying a shotgun is to read "The Tactical Shotgun" by Gabe Suarez.
I would avoid folding stocks altogether.

In addition to regular buckshot and foster type slugs; look into sabot-type slugs, Brenneke slugs and the "Quik-Shok". All three might have merit in particular situations and circumstances. I haven't read the book mentioned above, but second the idea of truly researching the defensive use of shotguns, the various types, the various types of ammo, and then study the differences of opinion. Then decide what you want to go with.
Let me express a different point of view. The answer depends on your intended use.

If you think you may need to regularly use the shotgun for precision shooting at ranges in excess of 15 yards or if you plan to walk around with the shotgun slung over your shoulder all the time, then the folding stock may not be the hottest thing since sliced bread. These are the conditions that exist at most schools which is why you don't see folding stocks there.

If you only plan to use the shotgun in your home or if you need to transport the shotgun discreetly, say, in a tennis racket case in the trunk of your car, then the folding stock has some merit.

True, many folding stocks give you less of a cheekweld and are less sturdy than a fixed stock. However, the cheekweld you get is still better than the underarm assault position with a fixed stock, which is what is often recommended for fixed stock usage indoors. Fixed stocks are quite clumsy indoors.

The folder is hands down better if you have to transport the shotgun, other than from the school armory to the range on the school property. Personally, I don't like having my neighbors see me putting long gun cases in the trunk of my car, but I don't mind them see me putting a tennis racket case in the trunk.

For work at 10 yards or less, the difference in shootability between a decent folding stock, such as the Choate, and a fixed stock is negligible.

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I have buckshot for my "welcome wagon", a short-barrelled 12-gauge pump gun. At across-the-living-room distances, the shot pattern will stay pretty tight, and buckshot poses less of a threat to whoever is behind the guest of honor.

On the other hand, you are probably correct. Anyone with a 12-gauge hole in his gizzard from a huge lead slug is probably ill-suited to "keep on coming".

If God didn't want us to own guns, why did He make the 1911?
I know a folding stock isn't Ideal but I want to keep it in my car. So either I just run a pistol grip or a folding stock where I can have some what of a stock.
My combat shotguns run about three feet long, with full stocks, and are pretty handy.

In school, you spend a fair amount of time shooting at quick reaction targets at close range, and still use the stock. Realistic targets are often small, for a number of reasons, and a careful shot must be quickly deliverable.

Searching is done with the gun already on the shoulder in low ready or, in tight places, "indoor low ready", which is more depressed but still mounted.

Properly set up, the guns are accurate with Brenneke slugs out beyond 75 yards. But for outdoor use, including a car gun, a rifle is more flexible. An good choice is the 30-30 lever action in the short carbine version, though I prefer a short .308 bolt rifle.

I think the shotgun better suited to indoor use, but do travel with one for motel room defense. A Winchester model 12 takedown, which breaks into a 19" package, is perfect, and will fit in a small suitcase or sports bag.
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There are occasions where a "smaller" shotgun is desirable. Usually, these are cases where concealment is paramount. Shortening is most often accomplished by reducing the barrel and sometimes the stock, too. These occasions are highly mission specific and the shorty shotgun is not normally considered fit for general duty. A standard 12 gauge with 18" barrel and 12-13" length of pull suffices for a wide array of intended uses. I don't know of any professional who uses or recommends a folding stock for a shotgun. The shotgun is my preferred primary weapon and I have trained countless hours with it. The shotgun is an awesome weapon, but launching nine .30 cal pellets downrange is also an awesome responsibility. Get your shotgun, by all means, but also get some training. Suarez's book is excellent and dispels a lot of the common misconceptions about shotguns, but the bottom line is go out and get some quality training from a school like Gunsite or OPS. You'll then be better able to make an informed decision about what you need.
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Nothing personal, but why do you want to keep it in your car? How are you going to secure it there? Keep it safe from break-ins?

And forget slugs. Too much recoil, too much penetration.
Well where I work it gets pretty scary driving home at night usually pretty late, example last week get in my car trying to drive out of the alley only one way to go and I have 5 friendly chaps just starring at my car blocking my way out. By no means am I saying this would be a situation where I would use a firearm but if things escalated I would at least have a chance. one thing that happened tonight walking out to car and some crack head is passed out behind my car again not a life death problem but what if?

I wouldn't leave it in my car I would transport it into my house at night.
Originally posted by KLN:
I have never seen a gun with a folding stock at any school or recommended by any trainer.
Although it's not a shotgun, an FN FAL with a folding stock is a preferred choice of John Farnam and he recommends it highly.

As the folder is not exceptionally expensive (about $35 should you go with a Choate or similar device) why not try one and determine if it works for you and your intended purposes?

I have two 870 Remingtons equipped with factory folders and can say they have worked out quite nicely for me. As previously mentioned, a folder makes the firearm more compact and easier to deploy from a vehicle. Additionally, the pistol grip offers better retention and control.

I find it interesting how some folks say "no" to folders, yet go right on to profess that is exactly what they mount in their travels or choose to describe NFA regulated weapons. Also of note, many of the shotguns described in the previous posts are surely law enforcement specific as the folded lengths indicate (under the 26" folded legal minimum). I believe you were inquiring about a 500 Mossberg.

Folding stocks will test your abilities (and sensibilities). The Remington factory folders will test your ability to absorb recoil since the buttplate area is less than a traditional stock. I do not recommend such a device for those sensitive to recoil. I have used the Choate folders on shotguns and they do a better job at recoil absorption than do my Remington folders.

The wonderful thing about shotguns is their versatility via the multitude of available loadings. I prefer 01 buck - 12 pellet overall when it comes to buckshot for most anticipated situations. #4 or #6 birdshot will work in close quarters if overpenetration is a concern. Slugs are a must if ranges exceed your or the firearm/shotshell's effective range. For most 'civilian' home defense situations, slug use is seldom a requirement. Ultimately, you have to be the judge as to what your requirements are.

[This message has been edited by Jager (edited 10-27-2001).]
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I will have to look around for the Choate folder all I saw at the shop was a butler creek. But recoil shouldn't be a problem I have shot with the pistol grip and have put many rounds threw it when I was younger it was kinda intimidating.

Who has good prices on stocks ?? any mail order or online places?
You can order Choate stocks online. They run $104.50 for the side folder. http://www.choatemachinetool.com/

My apologies for the $35 quote. That is an Advanced Technologies side folder.

You can purchase a Choate top folder for the Mossberg 500 series at:

Cost is $94.50 (at time of posting).

Or try:

Price was $87.00 for top folder and $94.00 for the side folder (at the time of posting).
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I would be careful with a top folding stock on a mossberg, since it seems to cover the safety on top of the receiver. I'm not a big fan of pistol grips on the mossbergs in the first place due to the inaccessability of the safety, but if I had to use a folder, I would go with a side folder over a top folder, unless I could demonstrate to myself that the safety is accessable with the stock open and closed. LAter.
You can reach the safety with a pistol grip on my Moss. 500
anyone know where you can get a shoulder stock with a pistol hand grip as seen on the Benelli M1-Tactical shotguns. I'm looking for an accessory to a Mossburg or Remington.
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