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Discussion Starter #1
This is only a hypothetical question and only with respect to 1911's. IDPA stipulates that .40's are in ESP and 10mm in in CDP. As Joe D put it, the .40 could be called a 10mm Short. If making power factor of 165 and you are still only allowed to carry 8 rnds in the mag, why not?

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John
 

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It only makes sense to me to allow Major Power 40's in CDP. But of course, this might not matter to those that make the rules.

These rule makers are the same people that require a shooter to fumble around for five seconds, taking the eyes off the threat, and retain a magazine with one lousy round in it rather than learn to reload with eight fresh rounds in a second or less.
 

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John Forsyth:
No, No , No, I don't want to shoot against you ! You should not listen to JoeD The Sandbagging Gamer King. Beside, that's a kaboom looking for a place to happen.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Originally posted by Ricky T:
John Forsyth:
No, No , No, I don't want to shoot against you ! You should not listen to JoeD The Sandbagging Gamer King. Beside, that's a kaboom looking for a place to happen.

To bad Ricky T. If you are shooting CD at the Georgia State Match, we are going to go at it, because I am bringing my Bilby Bob .45 with me!



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John
 

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Do any normal factory loads make the power factor? If they do, then you might have a case. If not, then you're SOL. The .40 was developed for several reasons, among which was the inability of some burly gentlemen to handle the recoil of a (real) 10mm, or .45 Hardball. (Although my 19 year old daughter seems to do OK.)

USPSA no longer allows building handgrenades by attempting to load sub-caliber rounds up to "Major." The whole point of which was "gamesmanship" and trying to gain an "unfair advantage" by creating a "major" round with less recoil than the .45 ACP. If a certain caliber is specified, then that's it. 'Dems da rules, 'n if'en you don't like it, FIND ANOTHER GAME.

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Fred J. Drumheller
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Discussion Starter #6
Originally posted by Pampers:
Do any normal factory loads make the power factor? If they do, then you might have a case.
I did a quick check on Georgia Arms ammo,

180gr FMJ, vel=950fps, PF=171
155gr FMJ, vel=1100fps, PF=170.5

Looks like factory loaded ammo is not a problem.



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John
 

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Funny you should ask John. I sent an email to IDPA last night. Their response was they had tested "a" factory 180gr. load that was listed at 975fps, but in a short barrel gun it only went 865fps. Quote from Tom King,"The BoD does not want members to load to a PF higher than the factories supply". I guess we have to get rid of our reloading equipment. IDPA BoD does not think we are smart enough to know how to use it. Seems like a little bit of a double standard as 2" and 3" revolver .38 SPL loads are to be tested in 4" gun to see if they make the PF.
 

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Originally posted by John Forsyth:
I did a quick check on Georgia Arms ammo,

180gr FMJ, vel=950fps, PF=171
155gr FMJ, vel=1100fps, PF=170.5

Looks like factory loaded ammo is not a problem.


John,
I fail to see the reason you want to shoot little bullets at really high velocity, you can achieve the same thing with .45s. You can load 185 grains bullets at 892fps in .45 to make the 165 power factor or 230gr. @ 718fps. Why bother with the .40. Please 'splain to Grasshoppa your reasons, old great Team ******* member.
 

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I have to agree with banjobart, but it makes no difference what we think. Pampers has pointed out the basic fact of life for us.

Personally I like non affliated local groups who combine the best of both (IDPA/IPSC) worlds plus new practical ideas that only occasionally suck.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Hypothetically, I load up some 10mm, and it only makes a 155 PF, can I say it is .40 S&W Long, and shoot ESP? Using the bullet as before.

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John
 

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OK...here we go...if a train leaves the station headed East at 65 mph...while a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it except a frog...with wings so he doesn't bump his....

We're getting close to the old IPSC standard that set a minimum caliber and you were either major or not - which really isn't so bad - just different.

Dang, John, just punch that baby out to 10mm. You already have the mags!

Mikey
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Yall just no fun at all.
I'm going to take my poodle shooter special and go home.


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John
 

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Recoil, we must see heavy recoil!!!


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"What most of these people need is a good slap upside the head. What I don't need is any more lawsuits." John "The Tooz" Matusak
 

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More than a year ago, I contacted IDPA about down-loading 10mm to shoot ESP, and they said no. A couple of weeks later, someone posted that their similar inquiry had been answered yes. Perhaps they considered the .40 as well, and now both can be used in either ESP or CDP, depending on the load?
 

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Hello Everyone
There is two factory 40 loads that I've tested in a five inch 1911 that will make the 165 power factor. They are The American Eagle 155 gr moving 1175 fps which makes a PF of 182 and the CCI Blazer 155 gr moving 1200 fps which makes a PF of 186. I've done a lot of testing and shooting with the 40 cal guns and I have hand loads using a 135 gr bullet that makes a power factor of 148 for steel, 179 for IPSC, and 210 for pin shooting. I've never had any problems with any of my handloads blowing up however I do use a full supported barrel.
Regards,Bob Hunter. www.huntercustoms.com
 

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I think the 40 S&W should be in custom defense. It seems easy to make 165 PF with it. I've long suspected the reason it did'nt is because it would hurt .45 sales (Wilson).
It seems like 40 got the short end of the stick in IDPA. Having to compete with 9mms and 38 supers with a gun that easily makes 165 PF doesn't seem right but some people don't want change. The answer seems to be if your going to use 40 you have to down load it. Thats what I plan to do with my new Kimber 40 that I just picked up last WED.

Bottom line is ESP 125PF.

PARANATOR...
 
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