Singer Info
I have heard that Singer after 25 missions collected the air crews Singers and completely rebuilt them then returned the pistols to the crews in a presentation case. I know this sounds a little far fetched. But has anyone on this forum ever heard of this? Thanks.
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I agree completely. I've been looking for an actual Singer for 40 years and I've never seen a real one. I've seen a number of good fakes. I don't want to buy one - I just want to study one under a good light. The precise tolerances and amazing consistency of their sewing machines is an industrial standard. Every part will drop in and fit in every machine. They passed the Govt. test of "Can you make thousands of these?" You bet.
As I recall all the Singers were made in 1939 and blued of course. I have read but do not know for sure that they were so crappy that the government canceled their contract. Hence only 500 were built. I doubt too that after 4 or more years out of production that none were taken back to the factory and rebuilt.
The were given a test contract for 500 guns. They found they could not produce 100 per day as required so they were given other wartime critical needs like Norden bombsight components and M 1 Carbine parts. I have never read anything critical of the quality of the 1911s they produced. If they could produce something like a sewing machine then a 1911 pistol would not be difficult once tooling and gauges were set up and in place.
black1970 - no disrespect but you need a better source of info. Everything you've heard is complete BS.
I do know a well known and loved singer died recently. 
Opposite, they are known for being some of the most well made guns ever, they just didn't make them fast enough for the governmentAs I recall all the Singers were made in 1939 and blued of course. I have read but do not know for sure that they were so crappy that the government canceled their contract. Hence only 500 were built. I doubt too that after 4 or more years out of production that none were taken back to the factory and rebuilt.
The interweb is a very dangerous place for anyone seeking accurate information. Tread with caution and a heaping serving of skepticism. On the plus side, though, lucky for us that 2,756 of the original 500 Singers are still available for purchase on Gunbroker and at gun shows all around the country!
Possibly millions of the original 500 Singers are still around. Common as dirt I tell ya..... I had a guy come to a gun show I was set up at with a 1932 National Match 1911 in a case. It looked to be authentic. It was completely rusted and siezed. It seemed as if he truly believed it was worth a small fortune and couldn't believe that I wouldn't buy it.
Just to echo some of the comments already made, I've always heard (and read) that Singer's were of the highest quality. They (the government) just decided that the bomb sights that Singer was producing were much more important to the war effort. If you've ever held one in your hand, you would know that the quality of the Singer pistol was not an issue.
Yes... the interweb is full of mis-information. It doesn't help when the uneducated contribute to it.
Yes... the interweb is full of mis-information. It doesn't help when the uneducated contribute to it.
The bomb sight was more important. Actually we were not into the war yet in 1939 but Roosevelt was going to make sure we got into it and our military was seriously lacking. The War Dept. needed to find out if major industrial manufacturers could suddenly switch production to war materiel production. Some could - some couldn't. Singer tried but couldn't mass produce pistols fast enough. It is kind of ironic that they were holding themselves to such high standards but they didn't know any other way in 1939. The Govt. needed to have small arms made so consistently that you could take 20 of them, tear them down and mix up all the parts and when reassembled they would all run 100%. Singer could hold that standard easily but they just weren't fast enough. The war effort was incredible when you study it and the American people wanted to help defeat the Nazis and the Japanese. I would bet that when the Germans saw the first 1911 run they were astounded.
Such a sad thing... couldn't get to 100 a day, but built close to that, much better than anyone else. They built em right, not fast. What I wouldn't give to go back in time and just hold a new Singer at the time it was built.They found they could not produce 100 per day as required
Just to try and clear up some of the misinformation in this thread... Singer Mfg. Co. received Educational Order # W-ORD-396 on April 17th, 1940 to build 500 pistols, plus all the tooling needed. The only thing not made by Singer was the plastic Keyes Fiber grips. They even made their own barrels, pins, springs and magazines. The pistols were completed by late 1941 and shipped to Springfield Armory, who issued all or most of them to the US Army Air Corps.
The pistols were of the highest quality, and in fact were made more to commercial standards than military, especially in light of their high-polish Du-Lite blue finish. Before production was even completed the Ordnance Department was ready to award Singer a follow-up contract for 15,000 pistols, but Singer management had also chosen to accept a different contract to produce M5 and M6 artillery fire control directors. As those were more critical to the military buildup the government decided to give the pistol order to Colt instead, and Singer's tooling was distributed to the other M1911A1 contractors, primarily Remington Rand.
- Ref Charles Clawson's Collector's Guide
The pistols were of the highest quality, and in fact were made more to commercial standards than military, especially in light of their high-polish Du-Lite blue finish. Before production was even completed the Ordnance Department was ready to award Singer a follow-up contract for 15,000 pistols, but Singer management had also chosen to accept a different contract to produce M5 and M6 artillery fire control directors. As those were more critical to the military buildup the government decided to give the pistol order to Colt instead, and Singer's tooling was distributed to the other M1911A1 contractors, primarily Remington Rand.
- Ref Charles Clawson's Collector's Guide
I appreciate all the info that you guys have been so generous to offer concerning the Singer A1. But some of you have made me feel a little beat up but that is OK because of my ignorance. I guess I needed it. Now here is the deal-a good friend of mine that I have known and worked with for over 30 years has a good friend that his Father and Uncle were on bomber crews over Europe in WW II. They finished their 25 missions and rotated back to the States. He says he has their Singers locked in his safe. I am going to ask to see them if he will let me. I will report back if I am successful. No lie GI.
There are somewhere around 70 genuine Singers still accounted for out of the 500 made.... plus thousands of fakes. To be truthful, 70 guns out of 500 is a pretty good survival rate considering it's been 80+ years. A long time ago I had the pleasure of speaking to an old WW2 vet who flew B-17s during the war, and he said that while most crewmen were issued pistols often only the pilot (as crew leader) would bother to carry his along on missions. The reason was that during a very hasty exit out of a falling, burning plane the pistols had a nasty tendency to catch on something, preventing said exit and costing the crewman his life. As a result the guns were often left behind in the airman's locker during missions. Then when the plane was lost and those who had to clean out their lockers found the pistols... well, well. For all Uncle Sam knew the gun was deep inside a smoking crater somewhere in Europe, making it a lot easier to pilfer the guns and smuggle them home.
I was going to bid on this one, but it got “a little out of hand.”
Many of us don't even own a house that expensive!
That's crazy!I was going to bid on this one, but it got “a little out of hand.”
Seems like I recall on one of the NRA TV shows, they claimed the government gave some of the Singers to other manufacturers and said, "build this."
As good as they were, I'm quite certain that many of the high end custom shops build pistols as good or better than the 500 Singers.
Singer built military 1911s to Ordnance Dept specifications. They were not hand-fitted like custom shop guns are. But for a military-grade firearm they were very well-made. I've never had a chance to look at one from the inside, but I've examined at least a couple on the outside and they were every bit as nice as a commercial Colt Government Model of the era.As good as they were, I'm quite certain that many of the high end custom shops build pistols as good or better than the 500 Singers.
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