I recently purchased a Sistema that was advertised by the gun shop in "excellent" condition. When checking it out at the shop it looked and felt good but I really couldn't get a good look in the barrel, there was a lot of dirt/grease in there plus the lighting was bad. Took it home,(after ten days of course-bunch of crap) stripped it, cleaned the barrel and upon closer inspection, the entire barrel (inside) is extremely pitted and the rifling looks very worn. It is a JLD Enterprises pistol and according to their Grade descriptions this seems like a Grade 1, it has all matching serial numbers and no scratches externally. What can I do at this point other than get a new barrel?
Sistema w/ very bad pitting!
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Just wanted to reiterate that my pistol has matching serial #'s on barrel, slide and frame with an exterior condition of at least very good so it should be a grade 1. The JLD description of the barrels of a Grade 1 is "very nice". The barrel on mine would be classified as "P.O.S."
How does it shoot? If it shoots good I would not worry about it.
You could get an aftermarket barrel and go that route if you need to.
Or, call JDL and see what they can do for you. However, if you did not get it directly from them, you may have little recourse.
You could get an aftermarket barrel and go that route if you need to.
Or, call JDL and see what they can do for you. However, if you did not get it directly from them, you may have little recourse.
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3,169 Posts
Let me get this right: You purchased the Sistema from a gunshop and not from JLD? In other words, this pistol was one they had in stock that they may have obtained from JLD, right?
If so, then why would you expect it to meet the Grade criteria that JLD puts on the pistols that they sell directly? It is possible that the gunstore obtained it from JLD as a pistol that did not meet their grading criteria, and at a substantial discount. Just because it has matching numbers doesn't mean that it would have been graded by JLD as a Grade I.
I don't think you have any recourse. Definately not from JLD, and probably not from the gunshop due to the fact that you handled and inspected this weapon prior to purchase. Did you ask about swabbing the bore prior to purchase? Did you ask if you could field strip and inspect? If they had not allowed me to do this, then I would have taken a pass.
Now, the good news. If the rest of the pistol is in good shape, then dropping in a new barrel will solve your problem, and you will probably have a good shooter. What did you pay for this pistol?
If so, then why would you expect it to meet the Grade criteria that JLD puts on the pistols that they sell directly? It is possible that the gunstore obtained it from JLD as a pistol that did not meet their grading criteria, and at a substantial discount. Just because it has matching numbers doesn't mean that it would have been graded by JLD as a Grade I.
I don't think you have any recourse. Definately not from JLD, and probably not from the gunshop due to the fact that you handled and inspected this weapon prior to purchase. Did you ask about swabbing the bore prior to purchase? Did you ask if you could field strip and inspect? If they had not allowed me to do this, then I would have taken a pass.
Now, the good news. If the rest of the pistol is in good shape, then dropping in a new barrel will solve your problem, and you will probably have a good shooter. What did you pay for this pistol?
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78,663 Posts
A new barrel will run about $60. Get one from www.e-gunparts.com
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D. Kamm
USGI M1911/M1911A1 Pistols Website
http://www.geocities.com/M1911_M1911A1
[This message has been edited by dsk (edited 10-25-2001).]
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D. Kamm
USGI M1911/M1911A1 Pistols Website
http://www.geocities.com/M1911_M1911A1
[This message has been edited by dsk (edited 10-25-2001).]
G
Guest
·Wait a minute guys.
PRKsux may have done the same thing I did with the same exact results. I bought my sistema through a gun shop. Not everybody has their own C&R FFL don't ya know. The shop I got mine through belongs to a trusted freind. The pistol was still soaked in oil and grease. He only opened the box it came in to record the sn#. Then it went straight to the safe.
My point is these guns are obviously coming from JLD in this condition. He offered to buy me a replacement barrel and install it. He is also a smith. My barrel is coming from CDNN ~ $40+ shipping. I don't care if it doesn't have a matching sn# on it. Like most people I know I bought mine as an inexpensive shooter.
note:: original POS barrel is more than adequate for personal defense, but forget about shooting targets unless they are "BIG".
I bought my Sistema knowing full well it most likely had the crap beat out of it.
None less "very nice bores" does not eguate with " very eroded, pitted, barely visible rifling. Buyer beware !!!
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Guns don't kill people,
People kill people!
PRKsux may have done the same thing I did with the same exact results. I bought my sistema through a gun shop. Not everybody has their own C&R FFL don't ya know. The shop I got mine through belongs to a trusted freind. The pistol was still soaked in oil and grease. He only opened the box it came in to record the sn#. Then it went straight to the safe.
My point is these guns are obviously coming from JLD in this condition. He offered to buy me a replacement barrel and install it. He is also a smith. My barrel is coming from CDNN ~ $40+ shipping. I don't care if it doesn't have a matching sn# on it. Like most people I know I bought mine as an inexpensive shooter.
note:: original POS barrel is more than adequate for personal defense, but forget about shooting targets unless they are "BIG".
I bought my Sistema knowing full well it most likely had the crap beat out of it.
None less "very nice bores" does not eguate with " very eroded, pitted, barely visible rifling. Buyer beware !!!
------------------
Guns don't kill people,
People kill people!
Joined
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3,169 Posts
I still don't see how JLD can be held responsible if you purchase a gun from a dealer.
My reasoning? If you are purchasing from JLD, you are dependent upon their "grading" in order to ascertain condition. My C&R Grade I came in excellent condition with a bright bore, crisp rifling, almost no wear whatsoever. However, if this had not been the case, I would have been on the phone to JLD asking them why they sent me something less than advertised.
On the other hand, if you purchase from a gunstore, and you DON'T take the time to handle and examine the weapon, then you are your own worst enemy. Anyone who wants to sell you a gun should allow you to examine it. If they won't, then take a pass and spend your money elsewhere. Just because the dealer only wants to open the box enough to record serial number doesn't mean that you have to go along with this.
caveat emptor
Regardless of bore condition, I would be surprised if this isn't going to turn out to be a fine pistol. I have examined about 12 Sistemas now, and each of them has shown considerable promise.
My reasoning? If you are purchasing from JLD, you are dependent upon their "grading" in order to ascertain condition. My C&R Grade I came in excellent condition with a bright bore, crisp rifling, almost no wear whatsoever. However, if this had not been the case, I would have been on the phone to JLD asking them why they sent me something less than advertised.
On the other hand, if you purchase from a gunstore, and you DON'T take the time to handle and examine the weapon, then you are your own worst enemy. Anyone who wants to sell you a gun should allow you to examine it. If they won't, then take a pass and spend your money elsewhere. Just because the dealer only wants to open the box enough to record serial number doesn't mean that you have to go along with this.
caveat emptor
Regardless of bore condition, I would be surprised if this isn't going to turn out to be a fine pistol. I have examined about 12 Sistemas now, and each of them has shown considerable promise.
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3,169 Posts
Also, PRKsux didn't have a dealer order him a pistol from JLD, we stated that the dealer had one that he "advertised" as "excellent".
AC's & 45's, was your purchase one where you ordered the pistol from JLD to be shipped to your FFL holder, or was it one he had in stock? If the former, then a complaint to JLD would be justified.
AC's & 45's, was your purchase one where you ordered the pistol from JLD to be shipped to your FFL holder, or was it one he had in stock? If the former, then a complaint to JLD would be justified.
G
Guest
·I am not saying there is any recourse to be had anywhere. I my particular situation I accepted it as luck of the draw. I paid $300 dolars for a $300 gun. I will say again I am happy with my purchase. I am not complaining.
However I can't speak for anybody else here.
Take my word for it fellas,if I thought I had been ripped off I would be raising Holy Hell. I just don't make a bargain and then turn around and bitch about it not being as good as the next guys.
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Guns don't kill people,
People kill people!
However I can't speak for anybody else here.
Take my word for it fellas,if I thought I had been ripped off I would be raising Holy Hell. I just don't make a bargain and then turn around and bitch about it not being as good as the next guys.
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Guns don't kill people,
People kill people!
I really appreciate all the replies!
Sistema1927 makes a very good point and
I agree that I made a mistake when I did not ask to have the bore swabbed out. From the external condition of the weapon and the fact that it was advertised as "excellent"(the guy behind the counter also said they were "hand picked"), I was not too concerned about it at the time. Now, when a dealer advertises something as "excellent" is that really open to what his interpretation of "excellent" is? In my opinion "excellent" does not mean a POS, pitted and worn out barrel. I agree I would have no recourse with JLD directly as I did not purchase it from them but would I be justified in taking it back to the shop? Oh and I paid $379 for it, which is about what I would pay to have a dealer order one for me(if they would even agree to do it) in this crappy state! Anyone know a good shop in SoCal that will order stuff for you at a reasonable price?
Thanks everyone for the help.
Sistema1927 makes a very good point and
I agree that I made a mistake when I did not ask to have the bore swabbed out. From the external condition of the weapon and the fact that it was advertised as "excellent"(the guy behind the counter also said they were "hand picked"), I was not too concerned about it at the time. Now, when a dealer advertises something as "excellent" is that really open to what his interpretation of "excellent" is? In my opinion "excellent" does not mean a POS, pitted and worn out barrel. I agree I would have no recourse with JLD directly as I did not purchase it from them but would I be justified in taking it back to the shop? Oh and I paid $379 for it, which is about what I would pay to have a dealer order one for me(if they would even agree to do it) in this crappy state! Anyone know a good shop in SoCal that will order stuff for you at a reasonable price?
Thanks everyone for the help.
Joined
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78,663 Posts
Sounds to me like the dealer ordered them from JLD to sell in his shop. For $379 I think you have the right to complain about the pitted barrel.
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D. Kamm
USGI M1911/M1911A1 Pistols Website
http://www.geocities.com/M1911_M1911A1
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D. Kamm
USGI M1911/M1911A1 Pistols Website
http://www.geocities.com/M1911_M1911A1
Joined
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78,663 Posts
There's not much you can do other than try the dealer's business courtesy. There is no law saying that the gun you bought HAS to be anything other than a total POS. But a dealer who values his customers would understand that no customer would willingly pay $379 for a gun with a corroded barrel when they could quite easily get the same exact item with a good bore for $299 from elsewhere. That is how much CDNN and JLD are selling theirs off their websites, and they clearly state that the bores are good on their Grade 1 pistols.
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D. Kamm
USGI M1911/M1911A1 Pistols Website
http://www.geocities.com/M1911_M1911A1
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D. Kamm
USGI M1911/M1911A1 Pistols Website
http://www.geocities.com/M1911_M1911A1
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