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Last night Thursday September 13 Larry Johnson was intervied about airline security. He is a anti-terrorism expert. He flatly stated that pilots should be armed in the cockpit. He said "Sky Marshal's use a 1.5 grain silvertip fired two to the chest, the target goes down and they do not penitrate the airplane skin." Is the Sky Marshal ammo a big secret?
 

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This was pure publicity BS. I strongly suspect that he'd heard some catchy phrase from someone who actually knew and, while not actually knowing anything about firearms, blundered it wanting to sound like an expert on TV. As we all know, there is no 1.5gr Silvertip. He was most likely trying to refer to Winchester's 115gr. 9mm Silvertip which, as shown during the Bu's Miami shootout, does not always result in the "target goes down".

He later referred to the weapons as "revolvers". While theoretically possible, this guy was lost and just trying to sound cool on TV.

BTW, their issue weapon was the Sig 228.

[This message has been edited by barbrady (edited 09-15-2001).]
 

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Originally posted by Teal Blue:
Is the Sky Marshal ammo a big secret?
Hardly...
 

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One thing is for sure, the 1.5 grain projectile would have to be moving real fast to take some one down. I did not know the Sky Marshal's used weapons firing needles.



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1.5 gr silver tip? As near as I can estimate, that is about the size of rat shot used in .22 shot shells. And one of those is going to bring someone down? Heck, one won't reliably bring down a rat (the type with fur and a tail).

If it is Win 115 gr 9mm, he is crazy if he thinks it won't penetrate the skin.
 

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smart thing to do is make the bullets out of sintered metal,powdered metal that is force formed to shape,disinergrates on impact.why not,we are talking Fed. Govt. here. jwr
 

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My shooting partner is a pilot for a major airline who flies nothing but international flights. He is fortunate to get Marshalls on his plane and been even more fortunate to watch some of the footage of them training. He has asked them what they do carry for ammo and they refuse to tell him.

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the sky marshalls do not shoot two to the chest. the ammo that they use ( I cant remember the brand} is so frangible that even a leather jacket will defeat it. They practice two to the head, and from what I hear fom a US Marshall I know, THEY CAN SHOOT!!!!!
 

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Originally posted by mr. pitiful:
the sky marshalls do not shoot two to the chest. the ammo that they use ( I cant remember the brand} is so frangible that even a leather jacket will defeat it. They practice two to the head, and from what I hear fom a US Marshall I know, THEY CAN SHOOT!!!!!
I don't know any Sky Marshals (I do know U.S. Deputy Marshals which are not the same service) but the Sky Marshals Qualificaiton course is available on the web, I think on Dan Young's site and they definitely shoot to the body. The Sky Marshal's qual is a bit more difficult than any other large agency qualification I have reviewed but our civilian students regularly pass it. Can't say what they carry.

Head shots are really chancy on an aircraft (though apparently there is not much danger from a pistol bullet punching a hole in the skin according to the jet pilots on the Gunsite list - more danger from hitting someting important in the plane) and head shots are simply not that effective. We cite several cases in training of people shot in the head with the .357 magnum who survived (one hiked out 3.5 miles through brush).

When I fly I carry my normal duty load but I gave up flying after the last trip... too much attention (they escorted me on to the plane before everyone else thus identifying me to any potential hijackers). Almost missed the plane in Seattle waiting for the right forms to fill out and it was the last plane out that day.

Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition
Jim Higginbotham
 

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Originally posted by JimH:
but the Sky Marshals Qualificaiton course is available on the web, I think on Dan Young's site and they definitely shoot to the body. The Sky Marshal's qual is a bit more difficult than any other large agency qualification I have reviewed but our civilian students regularly pass it. Can't say what they carry.


I saw a show on television on Federal Air Marshals a while back. One clip showed a Marshal (hooded to protect his identity) training in a airplane cabin mockup. He drew and fired two to the head of 2 BG's and saved the flight attendant between them. All in what I would guess was about 2 to 2.5 seconds. Damn fine shooting. Nothing short of expert. Of course they probably picked a hot shot to be on TV and might not of tipped their hand on "real" procedures.

Mike


[This message has been edited by mn2deep (edited 09-23-2001).]
 

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mr. pitiful said:
the sky marshalls do not shoot two to the chest. the ammo that they use ( I cant remember the brand} is so frangible that even a leather jacket will defeat it. They practice two to the head, and from what I hear fom a US Marshall I know, THEY CAN SHOOT!!!!!
A skull is a lot harder than a leather jacket...
 

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There are at least 4 sky marshalls that live in my neighborhood. Next time I chat with one I'll post his reply as to the ammo they carry. I do know that they carry Sig 357 mag as duty weapons.
 

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Rumor ? ? ?

Well . . . .

About 4 or 5 weeks ago I was at our local range and there was a middle-aged gentlement sharing the same range that I was on. Very polite and professional. Easy to talk too, if you know what I mean.

He was shooting a variety of handguns and asked "do you want to shoot one in 357 Sig ?" "Sure !! I'll shoot anyone's ammo ! ! ".

It was a Sig 229, in 357 Sig, like I said. . VERY nice Sig ! !

Anyway, "thought" he said it was a 90 or 95 grain HP load. Since we here in Ohio can carry concealed since April 8, I asked him "is this your carry gun ?". "Well ya -- it's my working gun". So I asked "what do you do ?".

"I'm a Federal Air Marshall", was his response.

Was a little "taken back" and now I wish I would have "pressed for more info".

Anyway - - - like I said -- a very polite and professional gentleman.

Sure could shoot too ! ! ! !
 

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I am a Senior college student and work part time as hotel security. Last year we had an air marshall who was staying at our hotel and was going to drink in the bar and asked if he could secure his weapon in a safety deposit box (why I don't know cause it's legal to carry in our bar). The air marshall's weapon was a FN in 9mm. He also had 4 spare mags on him. I had a chance to talk with him later on and when we started to discuss ammo all he said was that it fragmented very easily that he wasn't allowed to get into the specifics on what he carried.
 

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why not a HK MP5s? in .357 Sig with shots to the face mouth, sever medula
obolngada,using frag bullets that penetrate skull or teeth and desenegrate?
do they make a mp in .357 Sig?
:D
 
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