[JacRyan]

Argh! 100 rounds of S&B this afternoon over lunch hour and 3 premature slide locks with ammo still in the mag!! I was keenly aware of my grip on the 2nd and 3rd and am *positive* that my support thumb wasn't anywhere near the slide stop. Gun is a Wilson 1996A2.

Now, before I get too excited about the gun being a POS, let me state for the record that I have completely disassembled the gun twice. The first time was to clean it at about 2,000 rounds or so. The second time was to replace the sear spring after breaking the retaining nub installing the mainspring housing after the first disassembly. So, I'm not ruling out "operator error" (i.e., that perhaps I messed up the reassembly of the plunger assembly).

I wasn't able to look at the gun in any detail due to time constraints, but was able to feel tension being exerted on the slide stop by the plunger. My recollection is that when I reassembled the plunger spring and caps, I installed the short cap toward the slide stop and the long cap toward the safety. I did the because this was how I recalled disassembling it and it also seemed to make sense with the safety operation needing more travel from longer cap.

Is this the correct way to install the plunger spring and caps? Anyone able to tell me what generally causes premature slide lock (other than grip, which I ruled out)? For the record, my 1996A2 comes with Wilson's lightened BulletProof slide stop. I believe the reason for this is to reduce the inertia of the part during recoil. What should I be looking for here?

No one other than myself or Wilson's smiths have ever worked on the gun. I have not done any "home smithing" to the slide stop (although it was replaced at about 750 rounds when I got an ambi safety installed -- the original was fit too loosely for my taste), feed ramp, magazines, or other parts that I'd suspect are causing this. So, other than me reassembling the gun, you can rule out the usual "dremel tool mishap."

And, just to make myself feel better about the sear spring (and potentially the plunger assembly), I'm sure that NONE of the fine smiths or shooters on this board have EVER broken a part here or there while learning their way around a 1911.... Right?

 

[gyp_c]

LOL...I still buy two at a time! Recoil spring extracor?

------------------
>>>>>>>>>>g2<<<<<<<<<<

I Like The Shade Too!

 

[Tupperware]

S&B 230 ball? This stuff runs a bit long. Is it possible that the nose of the top round in the mag is nudging the slide stop up during recoil?
Oh yeah...you installed the plunger parts correctly.


[This message has been edited by Tupperware (edited 05-31-2001).]

 

[JacRyan]

gyp_c:

I think you were kind enough to post and lend me your advice over on www.pistolsmith.com. Here's the link to that so you can see where that thread has gone: http://www.pistolsmith.com./viewtopic.php?topic=1202&forum=5&start=0.

Thanks.

EDIT: Tupperware: I ran about 750 rounds of S&B (including this same lot) through the gun before without any problems before taking the Shok Buff out. I take the Shok Buff out and *bam* there's a new problem I've never seen before.... So I don't think it's the ammo this time.

[This message has been edited by JacRyan (edited 05-31-2001).]

 

[Tupperware]

Removing the buff could have allowed the slide (on recoil) to jar things just a bit more causing interference with the slide stop. Try putting a loaded magazine in the gun and see how close the nose of the top round gets to the slide stop. Is there any copper on the inside of the stop? This is a fairly common problem and is easily corrected.
You can always resort to putting a slight detent on the slide stop for the plunger to ride in. If done correctly this will not affect its ability to hold the slide open when empty.

edited cuz I kant spel!

[This message has been edited by Tupperware (edited 05-31-2001).]

 

[JacRyan]

Tuppeware:

You must read minds. I was just in the process of posting these pics over on pistolsmith.com. There is a detent on this slide stop already.

Okay, here are pictures of my slide stop. I noticed that on the inside edge there are traces of brass markings, similar to that on the slide of my .45 and upper receiver of my AR15's from brass. Easy enough to clean off, but does that give you any idea what's up here? And it's too strange that this type of interal bullet/brass-slide stop rubbing only occurred *after* I took the Shok Buff out.

PS If this *is* the problem, the question then becomes (1) Can I do it myself, and if so what do I do?, or (2) Should I just send it back to Wilson and let them take care of it?

TIA! I feel like we might be getting closer here!!

 

[Tupperware]

The marks confirm that the copper jacket is hitting the slide stop.
You have some options here. You can find a round that has a shorter overall length or different shape so that it doesn't interfere with your slide stop. You can modify your slide stop. You can put the buff back in. I like my guns to feed everything (within reason) so I'd opt for fixing the slide stop.
Fixing the slide stop is a simple matter of removing metal to eliminate the interference. The detent looks great and I doubt that it needs attention. The brass stripe shows you where to file (then polish). Take a little at a time and shoot away. Just be careful to leave enough of the pad where it contacts the magazine follower when empty.

 

[JacRyan]

You know, I also thought that the Shok Buff prevented the slide from goig back that slight 2mm extra that allowed the slide lock to slip up. I.e., the shorter slide stroke was covering the problem.

Hmmm. I wonder if this is something I should let to the pros at Wilson Combat. I'd hate to screw up the slide stop (and potentially the awesome customer service backing of Wilson's). I'm not sure what metal is important and what isn't.

I'll sleep on that over night.

Thanks all!!

 

[10ring]

JacRyan, As Tupperware mentioned, it's really not that hard to do. The main thing is to not get carried away with the file. Just take a few strokes to the portion of the slide stop that has the copper color and try it out.

You can see what's going on by removing the slide (and barrel) from the frame and then re-insert the slide stop back in the frame. Now load up a magazine with a few "offending" rounds and slide the top round forward a little, maybe 1/4 inch, much like you would have after the round above it was just stripped off, and insert it in the mag well. As you push the magazine up into the mag well, watch as the nose of the bullet on the top round passes by the slide stop tab. You will probably see the nose push the slide stop tab upward. This is the area of the tab you need to remove a little material.

As for why it was only a problem with the shock buff out .... this would affect the timing during recoil. There will be some relationship between where the slide is in its recoil path and where the cartridges are as they move up the magazine stack.

Good luck working this out. Really, it's not a big deal. Your fine weapon will be back in no time.

 

[JacRyan]

All:

Well, I called Wilson Combat today and spoke with Todd. He agreed with our (thanks

) diagnosis that the rounds were hitting the slide stop. He seemed to think that I had a pretty good grasp on what needed to be done (not like you all didn't give me enough encouragement to start hacking on my gun

). He told me I should have at it with a light file and be conservative. Of course they'd take it back and do it for me, but if I wanted to give it a go to save the time without the pistol and shipping, Todd would send me a new slide stop if I mussed this one up.

First I studied the problem with the slide and barrel off, but loaded mag, slide stop and lower assembled. Then I studied it again. And again. Measure twice, cut once, right? Then I broke my cardinal rule of taking a file or dremel to my gun. Well, at least a *part* on the gun.

I picked up a new 6" mill bastard file (looked about right to me? -- they didn't really have anything lighter) and had at it. I tried to give it a nice smooth round radius, but if I took it the wrong way it made the bottom edge "catchy" on every round, so I had to lightly (very very *very* lightly) round that corner off. I constantly checked it with the magazine inserted through the frame.

This is the end result.

And, here's the complete gun. I figure you're all probably intimately familiar with this piece by now....

What do you think of my work? I shoot it Sunday (if I'm lucky). Guess we'll all find out for sure whether it works. But who wants to place bets on whether I'm asking Todd for a new slide stop?

Thanks all.

PS It may look pretty botched up, but most of the "glare" you see is simply the contact point being rounded off, i.e., bare metal ad not major metal removal. I *really* didn't take much, if anything, off of the bottom edge to effect the surface area contact the magazine.

 

[10ring]

Looks like that should do the trick JacRyan. Please let us know how it works out.

What kind of digital camera do you use to get those nice close-up pics?

 

[JacRyan]

I *might* get to the range today. We'll see....

I'm using a JVC GR-DVL805 digital video camera. It's a fairly high end model ($950 or so when we got it a year ago) that stores the digital still photos to a separate chip instead of writing them on the digital tape like the lower end model. That being said, it's still a digital video camera first, and digital still photo camera a distant second. The chip used to store the photos is nowhere near the quality of the chips used in higher end dedicated digital cameras. Hence, it's pretty grainy when the light and other conditions are not just right.

We have a Canon EOS Rebel G 35mm camera with matched Canon 35-80 and 75-300mm zoom lens for the high quality still photos. The digital still photo capability on the JVC is just a nice little extra on an otherwise pretty good video camera. I use it just for email and internet applications. It's not as high quality as I'd like, but when I work at it I can get pretty good results. It's not a macro, so there's an element of monkeying around trying to get decent close up shots. Kinda like dealing with 1911's, huh?

 

[JacRyan]

All:

The good news is that the pistol no longer suffers from early slide lock.

The bad news?

Anyone?

Anyone?

Bueler....

Bueler....

It only locks open on empty mag 66.6% of the time (or 4 out of 6 mags).

I've left a voice mail for Todd at Wilson Combat. I'm confident that they'll fix this puppy up. I would like the BulletProof slide stop to be parkerized, which would match the gun. If they warranty out the part ($50), the finish should cost me around $5 based on how much it cost to refinish my ambi-safety.

We'll see. The saga continues and the plot thickens....

PS The pistol otherwise functioned very well. I really believe that it loads cartridges much better without the slide stop. At least that's what it *feels* like. I have an IDPA practice (my first!!) coming up 6/21/01. We'll see if I have a functioning pistol by then. I hope I don't regret not sending it in right away....

EDIT: Loads cartridges better without the SHOK BUFF, not without the slide stop. Doh!

[This message has been edited by JacRyan (edited 06-02-2001).]

 

[Tony Gattuso]

I'd say from looking at the pics that you took to much off the slide stop. You are going to have to get a new one and start over. Might I suggest that failure to slide lock on S&B is not so much a malfunction as it is an indication of the quality of the ammo. Going back to the start all this ... did the gun do this with better quality ammunition?

Tony G.

 

[JacRyan]

The gun did this after I took the Shok Buff out. Never did it before, and I've been through 750 rounds of S&B, which is one of the rounds Wilson Combat recommends for practice/IDPA.

Wilson will send me a new BulletProof slide stop next week. It may take a bit longer as I'll ask be asking them to parkerize it to match the gun.

On a different note, my gun is 5 years old and has seen many presentations (dry and live fire) from both Kyex and leather holsters with very little finish wear. I think when the time comes to have it refinished (in, oh, about 5 more years) and I have the frontstrap checkered, I'll probably go with parkerizing again. With a finish as good and durable as this, who needs the high tech finishes?

EDIT: And I'll definitely be shooting the new slide stop before modifying it. I may see if Wilson's will take a bit of metal off of it for me before it's finished.

[This message has been edited by JacRyan (edited 06-03-2001).]

 

[10ring]

JacRyan, thanks for the camera experiences. I've been thinking of a digital video camera so may be shopping around in the near future.

Sorry to hear about the ongoing slide stop saga. Dang, took a bit too much off, or maybe it was the rounding at the bottom of the tab? Are all the mags you use Wilson's? Or do you have a mixture like I do?

Hope Wilson's will be able to help you out in a timely manner so you can be involved with the IDPA practice. If you don't get the slide stop before the IDPA practice, you can use the 4 mags that do lock the slide back and be good to go.

 

[JacRyan]

10ring:

I think that the problem is more a function of where the follower is in the mag versus the slide stop in the pistol. There are very slight variances (side to side movement, even though very slight, can prevent the proper engagement) in the parts. I'm using Wilson 47D's.

I'll get this sucker fixed. I'm calling Todd right now!

Thanks.

 

[JacRyan]

Well, Wilson's sent me a new no cost BulletProof slide stop. They charged me $7 to parkerize it, but Todd hand delivered the part to the finish people and asked them to expedite it. Worth $7 just for the rush job!

I got it June 18, 2001 and installed it on the clean gun. It dropped in perfectly and locked empty mags open when I cycled the action. I decided to put the Shok-Buff back in. I thought I'd put the gun back in the configuration where it was working best.

I ran 150 round through it at the range over three trips and then another 80 rounds at an organized IDPA practice session. It gobbled up S&B and Winchester 230 grain FMJ without a hitch. Locked open every time on an empty mag using Wilson 47D's.

I plan on shooting organized IPDA matches all summer and will take the Shok-Buff out in the fall to see if it functions without it. If it doesn't, I'll send it back to Wilson's to have it smithed in the off season. But for right now I'm just glad my gun's back in prime shape!

Maybe the FTF's I experienced early on were just the gun breaking in. It went the last 230 rounds without cleaning. I'll clean it before the July IDPA meet, then run it another 400-500 rounds as a reliability test. At this point I think that would be a piece of cake with how it's running.

Thanks everyone!

BTW, this was my first organized non-military shooting event. Everyone's right about that being a true test of your equipement. None of this "shoot 8 rounds, admire your gun, check your target, shoot 8 more rounds at your leisure" BS. When you're on the line and the RO is calling out double taps and Bill drills, you just go through the procedures without questioning whether your gun is up to it. You expect it to work and pull the trigger when the RO says "commence fire," not when the thing has cooled down. This will be my first really intensive summer pistol shooting and I'm *really* looking forward to it!!

 

[JOEE]

The same thing happened today when i was shooting,had this problem,couldn't figure it out because it happened on and off........i found the reason today. it only happens when i'm resting the butt of the pistol on something(hard) for long shots. what i discovered was that i was forcing the mag up further than it should and this was doing two things, no slide lock after last round or the slide was only going halfway when cycling. stopped reating the butt on the hard surface........problem sloved.

 

[JacRyan]

Thanks, but I was using a two handed standing hold.