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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
It would be nice and helpful to have some guide about incompatibility from the most used gun care products. I have to say that for my experience, in many years I don't have had any case of incompatibility (and I've used many, many products), but I know that at least in theory damages can happen from mixing/alternating different products. I remember to have read something about this, written by Mr. Fennell, but I can't remember anything in detail. Thanks, MAXM
 

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About the only problem I can think of would be mixing solvents like chlorinated and ammonia base solvents.Basically I would not mix any of the solvents.Find one you like and stick with it.
The only lubricant problem Ive ever had was mixing Break Free with some surplus LSA.Not a real issue but the two made a gummy mess.
George Fennell said awhile back that FP-10 will not react with any of the solvents or oils on the market.I can say that Break free is about the same way.But it can happen.
To help prevent problems I always flush the bore of the weapons with a patch or two of isopropyl alcohol to remove solvent residue,dry patch and then oil.
If Im changing to a different oil I will clean the surfaces with alcohol,Mil-comm MC-25 or gun scrubber before applying the new oil.
Raymond
 

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I think the biggest problem would be for the grease users...different thickeners in different greases may be incompatible. MPC has a grease compatibility chart on their web page. Others are available, Google will score quite a few hits on "grease+compatibility+chart"

When I tried this translucent grease (synthetic base oil, fumed silica thickener) in conjunction with BF CLP I ended up with a strange mess. The grease seemed to "pill-up" into round brown-sugar like granules, but with gummy-bear consistency. I can only surmise that it was forming rust. Fortunately I noticed right away, scrubbed the gun dow, and it then got the cinnamon treatment. Clean as a whistle.
 

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Check out Schuemann's web page he has some interesting reading on barrel cleaning and mixing various cleaners.
 

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The best guide is to not mix products at all.

FP-10 outperforms every lube that I have tried, and works well as a CLP.

The only other products I use are some polishing paste like Flitz or Metal Glo for removing hard fouling and polishing feed ramps, and a degreaser like isopropyl alcohol (90%) or brake parts cleaner for use when touch-up bluing.

No reason to mix anything to maintain your gear, IMHO. I leave the mixing up to the engineers and scientists :) .

When I was testing different lubes on an almost daily basis, I would wash the firearm parts in hot soapy water, and then dry with a hair dryer. Ready for a different lube - no compatibility issues.

Regards,

Clay

www.fp10.com
 

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gigi*riva said:


When I tried this translucent grease (synthetic base oil, fumed silica thickener) in conjunction with BF CLP I ended up with a strange mess. The grease seemed to "pill-up" into round brown-sugar like granules, but with gummy-bear consistency. I can only surmise that it was forming rust.
Thats interesting gigi*riva.Thats about what happened to me when I tried cleaning with BF clp and lubing with LSA a few years ago.Apparently I did not get the BF clp wiped off well enough and over time it gummed up.
I was told it was probably the solvent in the BF clp that caused the problem.
I learned from that and started to prep the surfaces before applying a lube using a cleaner/degreaser or alcohol.
Raymond
 

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I've found Militec liquid mixes perfectly with every grease I have which are: Militec grease, Enos Slide Glide, RIG +p, Tetra gun grease, brownells action lube, and Wilson Ultima Lube.

I have also mixed bore cleaners with some commercial "fuel injector cleaner" liquid as somebody posted the chemical formulae were very similar. Mix perfectly, works well. The fuel injector cleaner is just way cheaper (about $2 for 16 ounces compare to about $25 for 16 ounces of Shooter's Choice bore cleaner).
 

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CH said:
When I was testing different lubes on an almost daily basis, I would wash the firearm parts in hot soapy water, and then dry with a hair dryer. Ready for a different lube - no compatibility issues.

Regards,

Clay

www.fp10.com
Acetone spray cleaner (auto non-chlorinated brake cleaner) will strip any metal bone dry of grease or oil and doesn't require exposing the metal to water.
 

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Raymond said:
Thats interesting gigi*riva.Thats about what happened to me when I tried cleaning with BF clp and lubing with LSA a few years ago.Apparently I did not get the BF clp wiped off well enough and over time it gummed up.
I was told it was probably the solvent in the BF clp that caused the problem.
I learned from that and started to prep the surfaces before applying a lube using a cleaner/degreaser or alcohol.
Raymond
I had actually e-mailed the manufacturers of this grease (a well known synthetic grease with Teflon.) I figured that given the base oils were similar (PAO base stock) and they both had teflon, they were made to be married. The mfr. confirmed this, saying their grease would be fully compatible with Break-free CLP. Now this happened on more than one gun of mine, the symptoms being the same. Grease pills up into little reddish-brown colored gum balls. I've since learned that the grease seems to have a certain water content, I don't know if that's typical of fumed silica-thickened greases or this particular brand. But that red-brown stuff that looks like brown sugar granules is likely rust.

That's what prompted my move to a 100% FP-10 routine.
 

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gigi*riva,
What brand grease was that?
I understand if you dont want to say.
But I sure would like to know.
FP-10 is all I use so I will never see that on my weapons.
Raymond
 

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pcf said:
Check out Schuemann's web page he has some interesting reading on barrel cleaning and mixing various cleaners.

With all due respect, to Wil, this is just about the most rediculous bottom line I've ever seen...
My Personal Practice has become to never clean the bore of my barrels. I do use a brass rod to scrape the deposits out of the chamber. But, I've learned to leave the bore alone and it very slowly becomes shinier and cleaner all by itself. Years ago I occasionally scrubbed the bore with a brass bore brush. But, doing so always seemed to cause the bore to revert to a dirtier look with more shooting, so I eventually stopped ever putting anything down the bore except bullets...
Good luck,
Wil
Good luck, indeed. You will need more than luck to survive this, eventually:
http://www.obairlann.net/~reaper/images/galleries/gun-explody/
Thanks to Raymond for the original link.

Also, Schuemann may have a quality reputation for barrels and barrel making, but a significant amount of the info on this page deals with his negative approach on anything with chlorine in it.
There is a VAST difference between long-chain chlorinated hydrocarbons and short-chain chlorinated solvents. To lump them all together in a chlorine genere of indifference, is as prudent as lumping Soduim Chloride (table salt), sodium cyanide (poison), and sodium penethol (truth serum, per say...anastetic) and consider them all in an equal genere of 'bad stuff". Rediculous.
Even the comment from the "chemist friend" was a gross generalization of partial facts about trichlor and perchlorethylene.

Bore cleaning IS essential. There is a right way and a wrong way to do everything. The one thing I DO agree on, is the avoidance of mixing solvents, especially when you don't know their chemistries. Chlorine mixing with ammonia will produce a highly toxic gas, and choke you where you stand (and breathe). If you can't get to ventilation ASAP, it could kill you, if the ppm (parts per million) count is high enough in the room.

FP-10 has no solvents. No worries.

Best regards,
George
 

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George,
I know you're always completely up front with us (at least I believe you are) so I'd like to hear your honest thoughts on this. If you were so inclined, do you think it would be possible for you to further improve FP-10's lubricating properties if you weren't also concerned about it serving dual duty as a cleaner?
 

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Bore Cleaning Question

The question on whether to clean the bore and how often is an interesting one. I have noticed that competitive shooters say they clean their guns frequently, but only clean the bore at the start and end of the season. The theory is that if you are shooting jacketed copper bullets, it will sweep whatever shouldn't be there out with each shot and you get better accuracy by not cleaning it. The throat does have to be cleaned.

I personally know my 686 will print about 2" high at 25 yards after completely cleaning the bore due to slower velocity. takes about four shots to come down to normal POI.

The other point is that most people inflict about 99% of the barrel wear through the cleaning process by the scrubbing with metal bore brushes.

I still clean the bores in mine after use, but gently. Soak in Kroil and use a nylon brush. Or, Shooters Choice bore cleaner on a patch works pretty well. All the metal bore brushes were banished to the closet years ago.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I, too, was quite shocked by Mr. Schuemann words. I know many benchresters use bronze brushes, and if they use them... it's good for me too.:rolleyes:
Also, I hate dirty bores, and many of them (especially old, surplus guns as WW1 and WW2 rifles, but even match guns) need brushes to clean them.
Hase someone tried a scientific/empirical approach to this problem, shooting and making comparison from two identical barrels, one cleaned with brushes and one not, or cleaning for "n" times a good barrel with brushes (perhaps even with a brush mounted on a power drill) and then sectioning the barrel and examining the bore condition with a microscope?
 

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harrydog said:
George,
I know you're always completely up front with us (at least I believe you are) so I'd like to hear your honest thoughts on this. If you were so inclined, do you think it would be possible for you to further improve FP-10's lubricating properties if you weren't also concerned about it serving dual duty as a cleaner?
Thank HD, and I'll give 'em to you (as always).

The FP-10's original and main focus was (and is) on lubrication; specifically, anti-wear (which is what it's all about, anyhow) and extreme pressure abilities. BUT, you can't have a great lubricant, without corrosion protection, else you run into dire problems and circumstances. Even the average lubes and engine oils have an anti-corrosive/oxidation inhibitor, usually ZDDP (which is zinc dialkyl di-thio-phosphate).

The anti-corrosion aspects are fully intended and meticulously balanced in several areas; 1. acid scavenging (Oxiranes or Epoxidized oils), 2. pH neutralization, and balance, and 3. Petronate corrosion inhibition (oxidation).

The cleaning action is a function of 2 things.
1. The light base oil necessary to balance the additive packages, which has huge surface spread characteristics. Kind of like the difference between using kerosene as opposed to engine oil for cleaning. The oil will work if you scrub it hard and long enough, but the Kerosene, with it's solvent properties, which have HUGE surface spread characteristics, will cut and dissolve it right now. This same (or similar) property is characteristic of the base oil we use.
2. It is a natural characteristic for the EP halogenated hydrocarbons, to clean or lift inpurities from the surface in order to impart the bounday film to it.

SO...to try to focus on the lubricant aspect without any emphasis (which comes naturally) to the cleaning aspect becomes a moot point, and has no bearing on the lubricating performance, at all.

I'll explain a little more in detail, about the comparisons, and pros/cons of the others. Right now, I gotta fly.

Best regards,
George
 

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Man George you should put some of this easy to read stuff on the FP-10 web site.You covered alot of questions right there.
Raymond
 

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Thanks Ray..

Ray, I could write chapters (and probably will when I get the time) but it seems the more info that is there, the less it gets read. No the case for everyone, I know. But I'm planning on an "expansion pack" to the Tecnical Info page, early this upcoming year.

Best regards,
George
 
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