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Should have bought the stock before the election! It's tripled since then
 

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and they will sell every single round to the government.
 

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A guy up the street is a national park service LEO. He says that they are having a hard time procuring ammo for training.
 

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Which part of the Government are you talking about?
the Demorats, since they can't take your guns yet, will take the rounds off the streets, remember the 40Ks < > rounds of .40 ammo the FBI bought a few years back, and the carry 9mm.
 

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the Demorats, since they can't take your guns yet, will take the rounds off the streets, remember the 40Ks < > rounds of .40 ammo the FBI bought a few years back, and the carry 9mm.
Total domestic production of ammo runs over 9 billion rounds a year. The amount OGA's (other government agencies) buy is a drop in the bucket.
 

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Everybody is buying and shooting more ammo these days. Back in the 1950s there was a magazine article that estimated that the average gun enthusiast or hunter would expend about 5000 rounds of ammunition in his lifetime, not counting .22s. Cops would only shoot during their yearly qualification, if that. Nowadays every cop, soldier, and civilian burns through thousands of rounds per year. For some it's more like tens of thousands. Not long ago I was flabbergasted to read a forum thread where some guy had already pretty much worn out his SIG P365 that he'd only had for about a year, but already had over 25,000 rounds through it. And then there are the guys routinely burning out barrels in their ARs and having to replace them. Crazy.
 

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Everybody is buying and shooting more ammo these days. Back in the 1950s there was a magazine article that estimated that the average gun enthusiast or hunter would expend about 5000 rounds of ammunition in his lifetime, not counting .22s. Cops would only shoot during their yearly qualification, if that. Nowadays every cop, soldier, and civilian burns through thousands of rounds per year. For some it's more like tens of thousands. Not long ago I was flabbergasted to read a forum thread where some guy had already pretty much worn out his SIG P365 that he'd only had for about a year, but already had over 25,000 rounds through it. And then there are the guys routinely burning out barrels in their ARs and having to replace them. Crazy.
There's a lot of truth to this.

There's a small group of people who shoot a lot. Then the next group still manages to shoot over 1000 rounds per year.

The good news is most people don't shoot at all.

With domestic ammo production at around 9 billion rounds per year that's less than 100 rounds per gun owner per year.
 

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I can agree with DSK on what he said too. More people are shooting as compared in the past. I remember as a kid for deer hunting where I would buy a box of 20 cartridges and it lasted me for three or four deer seasons. Actually at first my mother had to buy the box of ammo for me as I was too young at the time. everyone else was doing the same thing too. But when I was old enough I still did it myself. I think it was a carry over from the great depression era and WWII. Around when I was 16yoa, I started reloading and thus I could shoot more then, but I was mostly just reloading that box or two of fired cases I had. Most of my shooting was with a 22 rimfire rifle (rabbit hunting mostly) and a 12 guage shotgun (bird hunting) where I would expend a lot of rounds. For those I bought a lot of ammo to shoot up during the year.
 

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The ammo makers and reloading component makers are out there in the Magic Kingdom somewhere and are failing us as gun owners miserably. They are unable to react, plan, and recover to anything. It's not like this is something new to them. We have been dealing with hoarding for many years now. They are no more than a manufacturing plant like we have in the rest of the USA.

It will be the lack of ammo and reloading components that will be our downfall. Our ammo and reloading component suppliers are cutting the head off the snake for Biden. And they are doing an awesome job of it. A shame. I used to have a very high regard for the ammo makers and reloading component manufacturers. Our enemies have found a weakness and a friend. It is our ammo and reloading component suppliers.

And the ammo/reloading component will certainly make excuses. They need to design guns that shoot excuses well. After all, they aren't doing much else.
 

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That might be their plan. Heck even black powder muzzleloaders are severely affected. Percusson caps are pretty much impossible to get. You can't use Pyrodex in a flintlock either. Heck even the flints for flintlocks is impossible to get. Regular shotgun centerfire primers for the inline muzzleloaders are impossible to find too. What is amazing irony is that the bullets and Pyrodex is easy to get though. Not sure on black powder availability though.
 

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The ammo makers and reloading component makers are out there in the Magic Kingdom somewhere and are failing us as gun owners miserably. They are unable to react, plan, and recover to anything. It's not like this is something new to them. We have been dealing with hoarding for many years now. They are no more than a manufacturing plant like we have in the rest of the USA.

It will be the lack of ammo and reloading components that will be our downfall. Our ammo and reloading component suppliers are cutting the head off the snake for Biden. And they are doing an awesome job of it. A shame. I used to have a very high regard for the ammo makers and reloading component manufacturers. Our enemies have found a weakness and a friend. It is our ammo and reloading component suppliers.

And the ammo/reloading component will certainly make excuses. They need to design guns that shoot excuses well. After all, they aren't doing much else.
I'm guessing you don't own a business.

Ammo and component makers are running flat out.

It takes 2-3 years to build a new rimfire plant. Then it takes 7-10 years to see any return on that investment. It takes 2-3 years to train people to prime the cases and NOT blow themselves up.

It takes 18-36 months to build a new centerfire plant. Then it takes 5-7 years to see a return on that investment. Again, training people to make the primers and not blow up the place takes time.

This is all assuming you can get the raw materials. Brass, copper, lead, priming compound, and powder.

If you're running one of these companies you better be damn sure that the demand is going to be there when that plant comes on line. If it doesn't you've just spent millions of dollars on something you have no use for.

The whole industry is based on most people that own a gun not shooting much. Total domestic ammo production is around 9 billion rounds per year. Let's say 75 million people in the US own a gun. That's 120 rounds per gun owner per year.

120 rounds. That's it. If you add 5 million new gun owners that each want ONE box of ammo that's a demand for 250,000,000 rounds of ammo. That's a quarter of a billion rounds. If the same thing happens the next month it's another 250,000,000 rounds.

This is basically what has happened in the past year. An estimated 7-10 million new gun owners. You can be damn sure there's a good number of them that wanted more than one box of ammo.

Then there was the PANIC!!! This drove people straight into stupid land. People that shoot 100 rounds a year suddenly buying cases of ammo.

There are stories of people in gun stores that wanted a gun...any gun. They walked in wanting a Glock 19 and walked out with a Uberti 45 Colt because it's the only gun that the gun store had ammo for.

Just look at what happened with slugs and buckshot in the past 18 months. People started buying defensive shotguns and bought all the buckshot and slugs. So they starting buying the birdshot and range ammo. They were even buying all the non-lead waterfowl rounds because that's all they could get their hands on.

Waterfowl season rolls around and there's no ammo for people to go hunting with. Instead it was sitting in a closet somewhere, likely never to be fired by the person who owns it.

Meanwhile the price of the raw materials went way up. International shipping rules changed and the amount of explosive solids allowed on each container ship went WAY down. This restricted shipments of powder into the US. A lot of powder used in the US comes from overseas.

The precursor chemicals for priming compound come mainly from China and India. There's a month or more worth of ships sitting off the west coast of the US waiting to be unloaded. Also there's been a shortage of those big steel shipping boxes. They are coming into the US faster than we are shipping them out.

Long story made short. The demand for ammo more than tripled. Had the Presidential election gone the other way there's a damn good chance the demand would not have been so high.

Two years ago they were practically giving ammo away. Everyone in the business had full shelves of both ammo, powder, and primers.

If you failed to take advantage of this you have only yourself to blame.
 

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The ammo makers and reloading component makers are out there in the Magic Kingdom somewhere and are failing us as gun owners miserably.
They are doing all they have capacity to do at the moment, while at the same time leaving YOU with a multi-billion dollar opportunity to open your own ammo/primer plant to service some of the demand. So take the sure thing and round up $50-$100 million in investors, fight the epa and gov't for permitting, establish new supply lines of raw materials, build it, staff it and knock it out of the park!

I'm ready to be your first customer... large pistol primers, please.
 

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They are doing all they have capacity to do at the moment, while at the same time leaving YOU with a multi-billion dollar opportunity to open your own ammo/primer plant to service some of the demand. So take the sure thing and round up $50-$100 million in investors, fight the epa and gov't for permitting, establish new supply lines of raw materials, build it, staff it and knock it out of the park!

I'm ready to be your first customer... large pistol primers, please.
We are poor and pitiful. Our ammo manufacturer's haven't a clue on how to produce to meet the demand. Nor do our reloading supplies vendor's. We need to do as flecharo says. He has solved all of our problems.
 

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He has solved all of our problems.
Ha, just call it like I see it. Hope I didn't offend you in the process.

I don't blame any specific ammo or component manufacturer- they are all at capacity. Adding capacity cost a lot... as much [in many cases] as much as adding new manufacturing. - that was the reason for my sarcastic comment earlier.

Why would any of them undertake adding capacity? By the time they expanded or build new facilities, ramped up and hired/trained all the new staff (assuming they could find them right now) this thing may be over... and if not, when it is, demand will return to precovid levels- which is what they are already set up for. Paying off a new facility eats profits for a long time.

I do wish demand was being met but be realistic- ammo and components were cheap and available before all this, because there was plenty available and sitting on shelves.

Adding capacity now only guarantees them thinner margins later. Until we create a sustained demand, this will never change.
 

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We are poor and pitiful. Our ammo manufacturer's haven't a clue on how to produce to meet the demand. Nor do our reloading supplies vendor's. We need to do as flecharo says. He has solved all of our problems.
Well perhaps you should offer your services to get them on the right track. Barring that start your own company.

BTW, there's not a company or companies on earth that can handle a 300% increase in demand for their product.
 
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