1911Forum banner

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,230 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I was browsing in SW yesterday and happened to notice that there were a couple of Kimbers in the display case with external extractors. I thought those went away. I mentioned it to the counter guy and we got to talking about Kimbers in general. He seemed to be totally surprised with I mentioned the Schwartz safety, and after I explained what it was, how it works, and how the military rejected it 80 years ago, he said, Oh, I didn't know that. Moral of the story... Don't assume the guy behind the counter knows more than you do about everything guns. More than that, don't just buy a sales pitch about the latest and greatest, unless it's something you've researched on your own and know it to be true. If you hang around the shows and listen to some of the pitches the dealers give a potential customer, trying to sell him a gun, you'd really be amused..
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
13,220 Posts
A little more research would show that the military "rejected it," because it simply wasn't in the military specification in place at the time of the order for WWII. Anything in military specs must be tested first. There were never any military tests on the Swartz since it was new at the time.

Let's not forget that it was the military who insisted on the grip safety.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
I was browsing in SW yesterday and happened to notice that there were a couple of Kimbers in the display case with external extractors. I thought those went away. I mentioned it to the counter guy and we got to talking about Kimbers in general. He seemed to be totally surprised with I mentioned the Schwartz safety, and after I explained what it was, how it works, and how the military rejected it 80 years ago, he said, Oh, I didn't know that. Moral of the story... Don't assume the guy behind the counter knows more than you do about everything guns. More than that, don't just buy a sales pitch about the latest and greatest, unless it's something you've researched on your own and know it to be true. If you hang around the shows and listen to some of the pitches the dealers give a potential customer, trying to sell him a gun, you'd really be amused..
Funny that you should mention this. I recently purchased a Kimber that had the external extractor. After I got home with it I did a little more research...(my bad/after the fact). I was so pissed that the following day I took my receipt, the new Kimber CDP II with external extractor back to SW, I asked for the store manager and the gun counter manager.

I asked why they had sold me a pistol that was no longer being sold, and explained the whole situation. Thank god the store manager was up on his information and agreed to exchange or refund. They had a brand new Kimber CDP II with internal extractor that had come in two days prior and had not been put out for display. I took it.

SW rarely does exchanges on firearms, but if you buy one with an external extractor the store should give you an exchange or refund as long as you have not shot it.

The problem was that I did not do my homework prior to purchasing which I am normally very good at. I just got caught up in the moment of buying a new .45. But on the same hand SW should not sell something that is no longer being produced or even in their brocure.

My .02
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
758 Posts
Thats my one and only beef with kimber is their use of external extractors on some models, I love kimber, but hate external extractors, one of the reasons I don't like S&W 1911s by the way.

As far as the schwartz safety, I don't understand the contriversy, it's basicaly the same thing as Colt's series 80 safety, I've got guns with and without it, I don't see why people complain about it.

P.S. never been impressed with the counter people at my local S.W.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,249 Posts
Just for the record, "series 80" and "Schwartz" fps's are two different animals. The series 80 design works off of the trigger action and use fairly large levers. The schwartz is operated of of the grip safety, and the plunger is quite small and easily damaged, plus it is harder to "time" a schwartz than an "80" so it releases properly, everytime. A Kimber without a "II' and with an internal extractor is very likely a very nice 1911. A Kimber with either , or both, is a gamble for reliability, IMHO. Your milage may vary.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,230 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
My understanding is that if you have one with an external extractor, Kimber will replace the top end without charge to the current configuration.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,401 Posts
Kimber will not replace an external extractor slide for the heck of it. It has to have problems before they replace it.

Here is a good article on the Swartz safety. http://www.m1911.org/technic12.htm

A lot of pistols use a firing pin safety, actually I prefer the Swartz rather than a trigger pull activated type... I have not had any problems with any of my Kimbers.

I use Sportsman's Warehouse for only one thing... Previewing and handling weapons before I tell my local gun shop what I want them to order!!!

SW will not special order anything and most of the people behind the counter are dummer than a stack of BB's. They do have a great selection of products though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
395 Posts
A lot of pistols use a firing pin safety, actually I prefer the Swartz rather than a trigger pull activated type... I have not had any problems with any of my Kimbers.
You're in the small minority, then. In fact, from what I've read and in talking to a few, most custom 1911 pistolsmiths have no issues with a Colt Series 80 safety, whereas they can't stand the Swartz.

I haven't had any problems with my Kimbers, either. Then again, they're both pre-Series II's. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,230 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
I haven't had any problems with my Kimbers, either. Then again, they're both pre-Series II's.
Same with both of my Kimbers. He's the first guy I've heard say he prefers the Scwartz.
Do you suppose he works for Kimber???:rofl:
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
758 Posts
What I meant was that they use a pin to block the firing pin like a series 80 does. In theory the schwartz would seem better on paper because it technicaly leaves the trigger pull alone. Series 80 Colts (I have 2) have a slightly less crisp pull than a traditional 70 series gun.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,401 Posts
I haven't had any problems with my Kimbers, either. Then again, they're both pre-Series II's.
Same with both of my Kimbers. He's the first guy I've heard say he prefers the Scwartz.
Do you suppose he works for Kimber???:rofl:
I wish I worked for Kimber... Nah, I wouldn't last long- I would tell them all the things I would change. :biglaugh:

Just my opinion and speaking of mechanics, I would rather have a grip activated system instead of a trigger pull activated. But, I own both the series 80 in my Sigs and the Swartz in my Kimbers. Either way I enjoy shooting them both. I would prefer no FP safety at all. Sorry if this is off topic to the OP.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
758 Posts
sigs have a series 80? I thought that was a Colt only patent.:confused:

P.S. I don't have a problem with fp safetys as long as the gun works like it should, never had a problem yet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,753 Posts
I guess I will make the only "positive" post about Sportsman's Warehouse. We have several in my area and I have bought both shotguns and handguns from them. I have found their sales people to be quite knowlegable....most all are hunters or shooters. Some know their shotguns, others know their rifles, and others know their handguns. They have some of the best prices around and a good selection of accessories. My only beef is, they don't handle any Colts. They don't seem to have an explanation for that. The corporate office just doesn't choose to stock them around here.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
15,298 Posts
I guess I will make the only "positive" post about Sportsman's Warehouse. We have several in my area and I have bought both shotguns and handguns from them. I have found their sales people to be quite knowlegable....most all are hunters or shooters. Some know their shotguns, others know their rifles, and others know their handguns. They have some of the best prices around and a good selection of accessories. My only beef is, they don't handle any Colts. They don't seem to have an explanation for that. The corporate office just doesn't choose to stock them around here.
Funny you say this. I was surprised to hear the other stories. Being in North Texas, I wonder if one of the SW you've been to is in Lewisville across from Vista Ridge Mall? I've been very surprised and impressed with the store. They actually have an inventory and the 2 guys I spoke with at the counter were both knowledgeable and helpful and not typical BS'ing retail sales types.

I also found they have gear and supplies, cleaning ect. priced better than Bass Pro and Cabella's. I'm not even sure why Bass Pro has a gun counter.

Oh, and they have great prices on Wrangler jeans. :biglaugh:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,230 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Funny you say this. I was surprised to hear the other stories. Being in North Texas, I wonder if one of the SW you've been to is in Lewisville across from Vista Ridge Mall? I've been very surprised and impressed with the store. They actually have an inventory and the 2 guys I spoke with at the counter were both knowledgeable and helpful and not typical BS'ing retail sales types.

I also found they have gear and supplies, cleaning ect. priced better than Bass Pro and Cabella's. I'm not even sure why Bass Pro has a gun counter.

Oh, and they have great prices on Wrangler jeans. :biglaugh:
I do buy cleaning supplies at SW. Academy is cheaper on a lot of items. but they seem to be dwindling down their variety and I've almost stopped going their if I'm looking for a specific item because they probably won't have it. SW also has decent prices on powder, cheaper than most except ordering from a place such as Powder valley. I oder bullets from a place called Two Alpha Bullets. he has the best prices I've seen on cast bullets. If SW would only do the same with their primers as they do powder. Firearms pricing? Thay are close to the top of the expensive list, right under Cabela's. But,I guess that's par for the big box chains. I get a better deal at one of the local shops I deal with regularly..
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
15,298 Posts
I forgot about Academy. I stopped by there the other day and you're right, their pricing on cleaning supplies was incredible. FP-10 and CLP for example, were almost half the price.

As far as firearm pricing, I thought SW had pretty good pricing for a box store. Much better than BP or Cab's. I I agree 100% that the local dealer pricing kicks all of them out of the water. I don't think I'd ever buy from anyone but my local dealer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,753 Posts
...I wonder if one of the SW you've been to is in Lewisville across from Vista Ridge Mall? ...I'm not even sure why Bass Pro has a gun counter.
Yes, the Lewisville store is the one I go to most often. I agree with your opinion of Bass Pro...their prices are higher than Cabella's.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,230 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
I've never been in a Bass pro. I didn't think ANYONE was higher than Cabelas. They are like the gun auction sites. You can't even go in and do a price check tosee what you should really pay for a gun, because they aren't really close enough to the real world gun prices for it to even be useful information
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Thats my one and only beef with kimber is their use of external extractors on some models, I love kimber, but hate external extractors, one of the reasons I don't like S&W 1911s by the way.
FWIW, the Kimber external extractor and the S&W external extractor are very different designs. S&W has decades of experience with external extractors, and their third-generation semiauto pistols are among the most reliable pistols made. Their external extractors are a good design, and they work.

As well, the internal extractor is one of the problem spots for the original 1911 design. This is one of the reasons I like S&W 1911's. :)
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top