[jodisa]

Attn: IDPA National Championship Competitors. You can win a 2001 Model Springfield Armory Custom Loaded 1911-A1 Pistol.

Here's How: Compete at the IDPA National Championship, October 4-7, 2001, to be held at Mid-South Institute for Self Defense Shooting in Lake Cormorant, MS with a Springfield Armory 1911 pistol.

Pistol prizes will be awarded to the top-scoring competitors using a Springfield 1911 in each of the following divisions and classifications:

Enhanced Service Pistol Division: Master, Expert, Sharpshooter, Marksman, Novice

Custom Defensive Pistol Division: Master, Expert, Sharpshooter, Marksman, Novice

To claim prize competitor must register with Springfield by October 10, 2001 providing name, address and serial number of the Springfield Armory pistol to: 420 West Main Street, Geneseo, IL 61254 Attn: IDPA Contingency Program

Competitor must provide FFL for shipping of prize. Winners will be determined by the official match results.

Employees of Springfield, Inc. are not eligible...that means you, Rob & Jay.

 

[MuzzleBlast]

From the IDPA rulebook:

"Prizes & Awards:

Defensive Pistol shooting is a "Trophy" only sport, therefore NO cash or merchandise awards will be made. Defensive Pistol competitors will be shooting to develop their shooting skills and for the prestige of winning. Trophy or plaque awards shall be presented to the top shooters in each division and class at Club matches, State Championships, National Championships and International Championships. Because each division ‘stands alone’, no high overall trophies shall be awarded. Product prizes may be awarded occasionally by "chance" and may be part of your shooters packet contents."

I'd love to win a new gun (yeah, right) but how are y'all getting around the rules?

 

[John Forsyth]

Looks to me like SA can do any give away they want. As it is SA doing the giving, not IDPA, and it only applies to people using a SA product. Wish Kimber would do the same. Kimber, are you reading this?

------------------
John

"And by the way, Mr. Speaker, The Second Amendment is not for killing ducks and leaving Huey and Dewey and Louie without an aunt and uncle. It is for hunting politicians like (in) Grozney and in 1776, when they take your independence away".
Robert K. Dornen, U.S. Congressman. 1995

[This message has been edited by John Forsyth (edited 04-16-2001).]

 

[Beverly McCord]

I'm with Muzzleblast on this one.

I thought IDPA had the foresight to restrict the 'fight for the money' aspect of the shooting sports for a darn good reason...because if there were financial rewards involved, sportsmanship and principles would fly out the same window greed enters into.

I quote from the rulebook: "NO cash or merchandise awards will be made".

If Springfield can't understand this simple principle; and if IDPA can't/won't enforce it, then I despair for the sport.

IDPA can control this sort of thing, but will they?

 

[BILLG]

It appears that Springfield is supporting the use of their pistols in IDPA.They are also willing to award pistols to people using Springfield pistols.Also it really has nothing to do with the IDPA rules as it is strictly a Springfield promotion you must register with Springfield to win not with IDPA.I would like to see more companies offer something like this.Dillon,RCBS,Kimber,Glock,Beretta etc.I think that it good to get some support from sponsers.It reads that you don't have to win your class just be the highest scoring in that class using a Springfield.So if you finish last and are using a Springfield and no one else in that class is you win a pistol.BILLG

 

[tim38super]

On an emotional level I agree with MuzzleBlast and Beverly. I like IDPA as a trophy only sport.

On the other hand I don't see any way that IDPA can stop manufacturers from doing this short of banning their products from use in the sport, and your simply not going to see that happen. Bill Wilson already gets enough critisism that he created IDPA as a way to promote his own products, I doubt he would be willing to ban the products of his major competitiors and suffer the animosity that that would create. Also such a ban would punish the shooters who bought Springfields' guns and would do little to hurt Springfield directly. I know that STI is also offering some sort of contingency award and that several other non 1911 manufacturers are considering it.

Still, I would like to hear your ideas on how this could be prevented.



------------------
Tim Bacus
Bacus Custom

 

[deadeye]

darn nice of SA to support the shooting sports...THANK YOU SPRINGFIELD! the guys who are gonna cheat to win to win a gun are gonna cheat anyway. idont care how bad ya cheat,if i'm on my game i'll beat ya anyway,if i'm not then you didnt beat me i beat myself.

 

[PK]

I don't see what the problem is. It's been done in IPSC for years, with no detrimetal effects on the sport. For all the talk about money corrupting the sport, I just don't see it. Whether you like it or not, there are and will continue to be pro shooters in IDPA(look at Team Triton).

 

[MuzzleBlast]

Originally posted by John Forsyth:
Looks to me like SA can do any give away they want. As it is SA doing the giving, not IDPA, and it only applies to people using a SA product. Wish Kimber would do the same. Kimber, are you reading this?

Good point, and on consideration of this I agree SA is within their rights. There is no question that they CAN do this, but SHOULD they? IDPA makes a big deal to emphasize that no cash or merchandise prizes are offered, just a laurel and hearty handshake.

On the other hand, free stuff makes hypocrites of us all. I have already made it my personal goal to go to the national match and claim one of those guns (yeah, in my dreams). Good excuse to go to the casinos at Tunica anyway, maybe go see Graceland.

 

[John Forsyth]

I hope to again shoot and SO at the Nationals this year. Will it make any difference if SA gives a pistol away to someone who placed high enough in the division I am shooting? No. I think it is nice that they considered the lowest divisions, Marksman and Novice, even though Novice class is not permitted to shoot at the Nationals.

I do not see a problem with a Marksman class shooter, or any class for that matter, who has to take days off from work, pays their entrance fees, room and board, and does well enough to win a pistol from SA.

I would like to see more sponsorship from the gun companies. I have asked KImber and others to sponsor major matches. All I get is "We only have so much to spend on advertising". Screw the magazines, how about helping out the people who buy your products, shooters! If you do not think the gun owning public is a strong media, look at what has happened to S&W. No add in a magazine ever made me want to buy a pistol in it. What makes me buy is support for the sport. Would I be inclined to buy SA now more than Kimber? Yes, SA shows a willingness to support the sport where Kimber does not.

------------------
John

"And by the way, Mr. Speaker, The Second Amendment is not for killing ducks and leaving Huey and Dewey and Louie without an aunt and uncle. It is for hunting politicians like (in) Grozney and in 1776, when they take your independence away".
Robert K. Dornen, U.S. Congressman. 1995

 

[Chico]

Great! LAST year I shot a Springfield. THIS year I was planning on shooting a Kimber.

 

[Mikey]

Receiving some reward from a manufacturer isn't going to destroy IDPA. Bickering and fighting among differing factions of IDPA members and clubs can. I used the ONLY STI gun at the 99 Nationals (there may have been a couple besides me in 2000) and boy how I wish I had known about the possibility of an award!

It used to be that all you heard was whining and arguments about the differences between IDPA and IPSC. Now we hear the same type of argument about the IDPA "purists" vs the IDPA "gamers". The sport, like American capitalism, will be destroyed from within if it is ever destroyed at all. The in-fighting nearly did the 2000 Nationals in and clubs such as Cen-Tex (if I'm wrong here, please correct me and I'll apologize) vowed to never affiliate with the IDPA again. The award ceremony was tainted with threats of demonstrations and members being asked if they were "for us or against us" by certain groups of prominent IDPA members. There seems to be an IDPA Elite class developing and I hope the organization is strong enough to withstand the kind of division that can bring.

As for me, I will keep coming back as often as I can get a slot. If I happen to place well enough to get an award because I happen to use a Talon Tactical Holster or a Smith & Wesson Revolver or I wear an IZOD shirt, so be it. I was intimidated for a bit by some of the rhetoric last year until I realized that I had a choice. I chose to be there for the fun and fellowship of those who are like-minded. The rest can stick it.

Mike Maples

 

[Ricky T]

Mikey:
You hit the bullseye on that one. And I believe you're right on that Texas club that threaten to abandon ship, no need to apologize Mike. I don't see any of these whiners put up their own money to run a National level competition. I had fun at the 1999 and 2000 Nationals, and met a bunch of nice people. If it wasn't for IDPA, I wouldn't be competing and learning new skills. There was no way that I would make it to a USPSA National with the way they allocated slots to each club, I'm not criticizing the other Association. I hope to attend the 2001 National in October, and meet new friends and reminisce with old friends. And if those people choose not to attend because of their unhappiness with the industry sponsorship then there're just that many more open slots for those of us who just want to shoot and enjoy ourselves.

 

[Beverly McCord]

If for no other reason than professional courtesy, IDPA HQ could stop this with a simple request.

For the prize-happy, there is a way Springfield *could* reward their shooters at the Nationals without contravening the prize RULES of IDPA: They could award the guns by lottery to registered Springfield shooters at the match. Simple solution, huh?

BTW - CenTex is my club, we decided not to renew our affiliation after the last nationals unless certain things were changed. We ultimately extracted a promise from Bill Wilson that BoD members would no longer issue "rulings" at matches where they were competitors, which overruled both the SOs and the MDs. That promise was enough for us, so we renewed as a club when we came due this year.

I'll look forward to y'alla report after this year's Nationals as to whether or not the BoD lived up to Bill Wilson's most recent word.

 

[Gravity]

Originally posted by Beverly McCord:
For the prize-happy, there is a way Springfield *could* reward their shooters at the Nationals without contravening the prize RULES of IDPA: They could award the guns by lottery to registered Springfield shooters at the match. Simple solution, huh?

Excellent thought Beverly. I agree with that 110%.

 

[Mayonaise]

Someone please explain to me exactly what difference it would make to the integrety of the match? Why should it be a lottery? Why would that make it different? I see nothing wrong with SA rewarding the merit of the competitors using their product. After all aren't all the sport's sponsorships about selling guns, ammo and assessories?

It's a petty issue to whine about IMNSHO.
If it bothers you so much don't shoot at the Nationals! I'm quite sure there will be plenty of shooters willing to fill your spots.

99.9% of us shoot IDPA for fun and practice. That leaves .1% to fuss over the purity and the gaming aspects of the sport.

BTW, I'm offering a $1 spiff to anyone who wins my division using a Glock.

I never claimed to be pure.

[This message has been edited by Mayonaise (edited 04-18-2001).]

 

[Ricky T]

Mayonaise:
Get ready to give up that $1 to David Sevigny.

------------------
"If she can cook chicken, she suits me to a T."
Ray Charles

 

[Gravity]

Originally posted by Mayonaise:
Someone please explain to me exactly what difference it would make to the integrety of the match? Why should it be a lottery? Why would that make it different? I see nothing wrong with SA rewarding the merit of the competitors using their product

From the IDPA website:
What are the goals of Defensive Pistol?

To offer a practical shooting sport that allows competitors to concentrate on the development of their shooting skills and fellowship with other like minded shooters.

So a valuable prize comes into play now and the integrity is still 100% the same? Maybe a new pistol is pocket change to some but it's quite different to others.

That was my point.

 

[Mayonaise]

Originally posted by Gravity:
From the IDPA website:
So a valuable prize comes into play now and the integrity is still 100% the same? Maybe a new pistol is pocket change to some but it's quite different to others.
That was my point.

I assume your point being that people are going to run out and buy a SA pistol to compete with just so that they have a chance to win another one? I suppose there are some that may do that. It seems that this isn't a politcally correct contest that doesn't give people of all economic levels a fair chance to win a new SA pistol. I'll be shooting a Glock (cringe) so I won't get the chance to win a SA. So what! I guess I should be mad that SA didn't announce this contest before I bought my Glock or my Kimber.

The match, courses of fire, rules etc... remain unchanged or influenced by the side contest. Will the contest motivate the people who shoot SA's to shoot better? Certainly. Will it cause the other shooters not using a SA pistol to give up? I don't think so. Might even motivate those other shooters to beat the SA shooters. What harm is there in either?

There are always those who seek the negatives. If you're motivated enough you can always find what you're looking for.

[This message has been edited by Mayonaise (edited 04-19-2001).]

 

[tim38super]

Originally posted by Mayonaise:

The match, courses of fire, rules etc... remain unchanged or influenced by the side contest. Will the contest motivate the people who shoot SA's to shoot better? Certainly. Will it cause the other shooters not using a SA pistol to give up? I don't think so. Might even motivate those other shooters to beat the SA shooters. What harm is there in either?

The possible harm is that some competitors may alter their conduct in the hopes of winning a prize. A shooter who might accept that he missed a target when no prize is on the line may suddenly start arguing for 'doubles' if he sees his valued prize slipping away. I agree that most shooters will still act in a mature manner and not allow the possibility of winning a prize to influence their conduct but there are some who would not. However it only takes a few poor sports to spoil an event for some people. Consider the alleged conduct of a certain member of IDPA's BOD last year. That was just over winning a piece of wood, imagine if he had been shooting for a gun.

Tim