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Discussion Starter #1
I've got a worn Springfield 1911 - looking at Ty's and dsk's sights and Goddard's book, everything looks right, but the Serial Number. (Barrel is marked P and S on left lug, front sight is part of the slide not staked/posted - I think).

The Ser. # is 1108xx - designating a Colt. Numbers are uneven. No arsenal rework marks anywhere on the gun - just the flaming bomb/bullseye where they are supposed to be.

Anyone have any ideas whats up with this one?

Thanks for the help!
 

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That serial number was indeed assigned to Colt. Field-strip the pistol, then look at the top of the frame in the area where the ejector and disconnector hole is. Are there any markings there, such as an H or a G? If so then the frame is definitely a Colt and you have a slide and frame that are mismatched. The thing is, that could have happened at any time in the gun's history.

BTW the front sights were never an integral part of the slide. They were staked on. Early guns had a very tiny round post that poked through the slide.

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D. Kamm
USGI M1911/M1911A1 Pistols Website
http://www.geocities.com/M1911_M1911A1

[This message has been edited by dsk (edited 08-06-2001).]
 

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Discussion Starter #3
dsk:

Thanks for the help!

There is/are no marking(s) near the area you noted. Frame is marked above the magazine release with a flaiming bomb (4 fingers of flames) with a bullseye in the center - just like the slide (which is marked "SPRINGFIELD ARMORY" and below it "U.S.A.".

The frame appears to be a Springfield, with the serial number to the left of and slightly above the centerline of the slide stop hole on the left side of the frame. Also, the barrel seems correct, as do the slide stop, hammer and grips (11 rows of checkering between the diamonds).

If someone changed the #, why use a Colt number on a Frame with Springfield proof? I'm baffled.

With respect to the front sight, I'm using the GOVERNMENT MODELS, by William Goddard as my reference, where he notes on page 141, " Distinguishing differences of the Springfield made Model of 1911 pistols include a front sight machined integrally with the slide (it is a separate part on the Colt's)..."

Roger D


[This message has been edited by Roger D (edited 08-06-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Roger D (edited 08-06-2001).]
 

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Thanks for the reminder dsk. I forgot that people like sgt. Art sometimes mention aircraft. So I feel the need to circle in and shoot them down in a nice way. I know about aviation almost as much as you know the 1911.
 

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Roger D....
Could this be one of the guns Springfield assembled in 1918 when Colt and others shipped their residue to Springfield Armory?

The only problem I have with that is the frame is a 1915 frame.

I've seen 1911 Colt frames with the Springfield Armory Eagle before, but I've never come across a Colt frame with the Springfield flaming bomb. Is the hammer Springfield?

Good luck in your search.
Regards,
Sam
 

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Discussion Starter #7
SamColtFan

Thank you for your input.

As far as I can tell, it is a S.A. hammer. From further research and comments on the Collectors Forum, I'm fairly certain that someone, long ago liberated this pistol and tampered with the number. Comparing the appearance of the Ser # with a known S.A. pistol seems to be the last check to run.

I'll post the results.

Regards,

Roger D.
 

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Ben-

So are you saying that Springfield milled the front sight out of the slide stock?

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D. Kamm
USGI M1911/M1911A1 Pistols Website
http://www.geocities.com/M1911_M1911A1
 

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Roger D...
The hammer on a Springfield rests at a lower almost horizontal angle compared to a Colt. And as Ben said, it will be marked with a small "S". I have one of the 1918 Springfield assembled guns that was assembled from all of the parts from other companies shipped into SA near the end of the war. Mine has a 1918 Colt frame with the Springfield Armory inspectors eagle mark above the mag release. The hammer is Springfield. The slide is Springfield Armory marked with the flaming bomb. It's a cool old gun. If they could only talk!
Regards,
Sam
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Stripping a gun at 1:55 a.m. looking for "S's", its offical, I'm certifiably ... hooked.

The hammer, thumb safety, mainspring housing and grip safety all have the "S" stamp. I'm calling this pistol a Springfield, now about that [email protected]#$ serial number.

SamColtFan - if this pistol could talk, I'd ask it where the heck did it pick up such a ridiculous serial number!
 

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Roger-

Maybe you should give some serious thought to shipping it to Karl Karash or Scott Gahimer (with their permission, of course) so they can look at that serial number really hard and verify its originality. If it is indeed original then you have a worthy collector's item. It will also be important should you ever try to sell it and the would-be buyer scoffs that you are passing off an altered pistol.

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D. Kamm
USGI M1911/M1911A1 Pistols Website
http://www.geocities.com/M1911_M1911A1
 
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