1911Forum banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 28 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
That's an impressive list of winners in STI's reward program. Quite commendable sponsorship for an IPSC venue. After all, one of the founding precepts of IPSC was to encourage innovation in firearms.

In an IDPA venue, however, an award for performance is against the rules. STI can do what they want, but it seems like an "It ain't cheating if you don't get caught mentality."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
220 Posts
So, you calling Dave S. and Don K. cheaters? Or the IDPA folks that take the rewards?

Anyone that knows Dave and Don knows that they are two of the nicest, most helpful, most honorable, and most gentlemanly humans out there. I take offense to your post, as to me, it infers that Dave and Don are less than honest. Hopefully, I am looking at it in the wrong way, in which case, I apologize. Maybe you can clarify a bit....

Richard Jones
Rice, VA


Originally posted by Beverly McCord:
That's an impressive list of winners in STI's reward program. Quite commendable sponsorship for an IPSC venue. After all, one of the founding precepts of IPSC was to encourage innovation in firearms.

In an IDPA venue, however, an award for performance is against the rules. STI can do what they want, but it seems like an "It ain't cheating if you don't get caught mentality."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,649 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Originally posted by Beverly McCord:
In an IDPA venue, however, an award for performance is against the rules. STI can do what they want, but it seems like an "It ain't cheating if you don't get caught mentality."
It's against the rules for the IDPA and IDPA clubs to reward performance. There is absolutely no rule against manufacturers rewarding winners.

Your implication that STI an SA are somehow cheating is unwarranted and absurd though recalling comments from you in your past IPSC life, it is apparently not unexpected.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
From the IDPA rulebook: "Defensive Pistol shooting is a "Trophy" only sport, therefore NO cash or merchandise awards will be made."

Not a word about by whom the awards will be made. NO awards. It's black and white.

If someone can find a loophole in that, they're looking too hard. Let your conscience be your guide.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
769 Posts
Originally posted by Beverly McCord:
From the IDPA rulebook: "Defensive Pistol shooting is a "Trophy" only sport, therefore NO cash or merchandise awards will be made."

Not a word about by whom the awards will be made. NO awards. It's black and white.

If someone can find a loophole in that, they're looking too hard. Let your conscience be your guide.
I suggest you purge yourself from the now corrupted IDPA Nationals! Tear up that membership card! Free yourself from the demon!

<rolls eyes>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
257 Posts
Last time I checked, IDPA's rule book only governed IDPA, not every manufacturer who's products are used in competition. I was planning on shooting some IDPA this year, but if this is the kind of aditude in the sport, I think I might be better off sticking with IPSC.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,312 Posts
PK, do not let this run you off. 99 out of 100 shooters in IDPA do it for the comraderie and the competition. If they do good enough to win a trophy, so be it, if they win a door prise, so much the better. I am one of those 99. I do not know anybody who does this for the prize table.

------------------
John

"And by the way, Mr. Speaker, The Second Amendment is not for killing ducks and leaving Huey and Dewey and Louie without an aunt and uncle. It is for hunting politicians like (in) Grozney and in 1776, when they take your independence away".
Robert K. Dornen, U.S. Congressman. 1995
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,053 Posts
I had the chance to visit with the folks at STI about their contingency program. As it was explanied to me, it is an effort on their part to more or less provide a form of sponsorship to the general public to help promote the shooting sports. I doubt that anyone really cares if a C class shooter wins an area champoionship in their class with an STI frame. It's just nice of STI to give everyone a chance at a reward if they use their products and take the time to register. Obviously the program is for the purpose of helping shooters out, it is not to shamelessly promote their product....good grief.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,649 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Originally posted by Beverly McCord:
From the IDPA rulebook: "Defensive Pistol shooting is a "Trophy" only sport, therefore NO cash or merchandise awards will be made."
Yes, no awards are made or will be made by the IDPA. The contingency programs are not affiliated with the IPDA. Or are you now suggesting that the IDPA has some authority over independant manufacturers and IDPA shooters once they've left the range? Brings a whole new meaning to the term Range Nazi.

If someone can find a loophole in that
The only loophole is between your ears.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
769 Posts
Originally posted by John Forsyth:
PK, do not let this run you off. 99 out of 100 shooters in IDPA do it for the comraderie and the competition. If they do good enough to win a trophy, so be it, if they win a door prise, so much the better. I am one of those 99. I do not know anybody who does this for the prize table.

Well said John. Sorry I didn't get a chance to meet you at the Alabama match last week. I had a great time. The Steel City people (Myrin, Amelia, John etc...) put on a great event. It's all about having fun, meeting new people and the challenge of new and creative courses of fire. Lady luck looked down on me for once and I came home with some hardware but that's not why I went. These discussions aren't unique to this sport. Over the years I've competed in numerous different sports. As they say, There's some in every crowd.

PK, I hope you'll go out and try IDPA and base an opinion on your experience vs discussions on this or any web forum. Not everyone is in IDPA, IPSC, USPSA, GSSF etc... for the same reasons. You get out of it what you put into it.

Mark
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,312 Posts
Sorry, too. Mikey and I will be SO's at the Georgia State Match next month. Probably see you there. Also, I do not plan on buying any STI's (even though I wish I could) or SA's (again I wish I could) and become a flaming gaming a**hole by next month's match. But if baby back ribs are on the line, I can be one tough you know what to beat.


------------------
John

"And by the way, Mr. Speaker, The Second Amendment is not for killing ducks and leaving Huey and Dewey and Louie without an aunt and uncle. It is for hunting politicians like (in) Grozney and in 1776, when they take your independence away".
Robert K. Dornen, U.S. Congressman. 1995
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
605 Posts
Well, I was going to devote this season to my new revolver and leave my STI in a state of semi-retirement - but with these incentives...

If I backpeddle and shoot my STI just to win, will I forfeit my IDPA soul and go to shooter's Hell?

Oh! I forgot...I'm going to shooter's Hell for buying a Smith & Wesson revolver anyway - guess I'll stick to plan A!

See y'all in Georgia and again at the Southern Regional...then, hopefully, at the Nationals.

Mikey
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
13,559 Posts
Mikey:
If you're going to hell for buying S&W, you'll have plenty of company, including me.

------------------
"If she can cook chicken, she suits me to a T."
Ray Charles
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
So, no apology to Dave and Don? Final answer?

Let's see if I understand all this...

1) The rules (which I didn't make up) say no merchandise prizes, except by chance.
2) A sponsor ignores that little tenet and does it anyway.
3) I get beat up on for pointing out the dichotomy involved, and for suggesting an alternative method for distributing the same prizes to the same set of shooters that would NOT circumvent the rules and goals of IDPA.
4)... and I owe that sponsor an apology?

Is this a joke?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
220 Posts
Ms. McCord,

No, I think you do not understand this. To respond to your points:

1. This is just for the IDPA proper. No prizes, etc., at THIER matches. So, STI can't donate, say, a frame and designate it specifically for someone winning a certain class, only for a random drawing. Fine, I buy that, no problem. It doesn't specifically exclude anything outside their matches, does it? (Hint: The answer is no, I believe).

2. Since # 1 above is true, at least in Rich's world, this is a non-issue.

3. I musta missed that, I can't find that anywhere in this thread. I could care less about dichotomy OR prizes, I chastised you only for calling two nice guys cheaters. I still do.

4. Unequivocally, yes.

In answer to your last question, no, it is no joke to denigrate and degrade other people. You could have probed the question about the contingency program in another way, without resorting to character defamation. "Is there a concern about the IDPA rules as far as contingency programs from manufacturers outside of the match venue?" That opens up a discussion, in which adults participate, versus mud slinging, which is, in my opinion, what you did. What was the official response from the IDPA BOD when you asked them about this? I assume that you do have a formal complaint to them?

Richard Jones
Rice, VA


Originally posted by Beverly McCord:
So, no apology to Dave and Don? Final answer?

Let's see if I understand all this...

1) The rules (which I didn't make up) say no merchandise prizes, except by chance.
2) A sponsor ignores that little tenet and does it anyway.
3) I get beat up on for pointing out the dichotomy involved, and for suggesting an alternative method for distributing the same prizes to the same set of shooters that would NOT circumvent the rules and goals of IDPA.
4)... and I owe that sponsor an apology?

Is this a joke?

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,649 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Originally posted by Beverly McCord:
4)... and I owe that sponsor an apology?
Based on your accusation that they are cheating, yes.


Seems you have several options:

1) Don't buy any STI products.
2) Don't buy any SA products.
3) Call Bill Wilson and insist that any shooter who ever accepted a contingency prize be banned from IDPA forever.
4) Insist that IDPA never, ever accept one single cent of tourny/match sponsorship money from STI and SA.
5) Continue bitching about something you apparently don't understand.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
257 Posts
Originally posted by Beverly McCord:

4)... and I owe that sponsor an apology?

Is this a joke?
Lest we not forget who puts up the money for major matches before anyone gets in the habit of trashing sponsors on a regular basis. And just where would any shooting sport be without good sponsors? Nowhere...
 
1 - 20 of 28 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top