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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a Tac-Four with 4 13 round mags. Recently it developed a problem with locking the slide open. Will not lock the slide open with any of the mags. I am not that familiar with the Para and this Tac-Four is brand new. Can you offer some suggestions of things to check?

Jess
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Found the problem. The slide release is dimpled. The same size dimple that the tension ball is. Also had a drag mark from the dimple to the bottom edge. I will call Para tomorrow and see what is up with that. At least this is the first MIM related failure that I know of. I stuck the slide stop from my Kimber series I Royal on there (it is made of steel, not MIM) and the slide stop works every time. I am not happy.

Jess
 

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I had this problem develop with my Tac-Four after about 600 rounds. I ordered new Mag springs from Wolff and the problen is solved. The new higher strength springs do makt it next to impossible to get 13 rounds in the mag, but at least the slide locks back when empty.
 

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[B]This should help you out........[/B]

Just a couple of quick point of fact items.

1)Para’s double stack slide stops are cast (not MIM) Kimber slide stops ARE MIM.

2)The TAC 4 Slide Stops are cast Stainless Steel.

3)The “dimple” is called a Detent, and it is supposed to be there.

4)You cannot use a single stack slide stop in a double stack gun. They are not configured the same way.

To fix the problem you are experiencing, disassemble your magazine, and gently bend the top coil to change the follower angle upwards a little bit. You don’t even need to remove the follower from the coil to do it, and can do it easily with your fingers.
 

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Jess said:
I am not happy.

You are not happy is one thing - thinking you "know" why you are unhappy is another. As Newton pointed out, your assumptions about MIM, dimples, etc. are completely wrong.

Para has great customer service. Call them to deal with your "happiness" issues, but don't call them and tell them you are seeing a MIM related issue - because you most certainly are not.

Take Newton's advice and see if your problem goes away.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Geez Shane,

Switch to decaf! The standard 1911 slide stop on from my Kimber works perfectly. They also compare measure for measure and size for size exactly the same. Please expand on how they are different? Just because I have an opinion on what I think is wrong does not warrant such a terse response. Could it just be that I asked the question here to get more information, not to be chastized unjustly for YOUR assumption that I was pretending to be an expert? Or are you just sesitive to the cast vs machined parts discussion?

Jess:confused:
 

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Jess,

You clearly stated several wrong pieces of information in your post, and with MIM sensitivities at an all time high, it is best to get some facts straight before you make statements such as Kimber's slide stop is made of steel, or you are experiencing a MIM-related failure.

This is wrong on two accounts:
First, Kimber's slide stop is indeed MIM.
Secondly, you are implying that Para's slide stop is also MIM - which it is not.

It is not so much the fact that you are wrong (we all make mistakes), but the way you presented yourself in this post. Instead of calling Para to get correct and accurate information relating to your problem, you chose to post your complaint here first, with all its inaccuracies.

I'm not trying to be a jerk here. I am simply allowing every manufacturer the chance to make a problem right, before it gets posted on every internet discussion forum. If your Tac-Four is brand new as you stated, your first action should have been to contact Para - they are more than helpful, warranty situation or not.

As far as the slide stop goes, a properly spec'd stop should work in all 1911's. This is not always true, as I have had to fit several aftermarket slide stops (Wilson, etc) specifically to my Para's - although they are a 100% drop-in part on my other 1911's.

When you say that your Kimber slide stop works perfectly, are you saying that it WILL lock the slide back on an empty mag, and the factory Para slide stop will not?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Yes, it locks the slide every time on every mag. And there is no ball detent on the Kimber stop and it is NOT cast or MIM. And you still sound terse. Relax, I am not asking to marry your sister!

Jess
 

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There is a chance that the detent on your Para stop is too deep, and the mag spring doesn't have enough force to push the follower up against the slide stop to allow it to lock the slide back.

(There should still be a dimple there, even on the Kimber stop, however).

Do you know how to detail strip a 1911? If so, I would take out the plunger spring assy, and see if the slide stop will allow slide lock without the plunger spring assy in place. If so, then the detent is too deep.

I would still contact Para, as it sounds like you may need a new slide stop, or do as Newton suggested and bend your mag spring to put more upper pressure on the follower.
 

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Missing a key point.

Hi Jess. I'm stumped by something you're stating. You're saying that your Kimber Single Stack Slide Stop is dimensionally the same as the Tac 4 Slide Stop. I don't know how that is possible.
The head of the Tac 4 slide stop should be substantially different in size and shape. I'm not talking about the part of the head that comes in contact with the detent pin, I'm talking about the part that is inside the pistol. Since Para uses a side-by-side type of magazine in their double stack pistols, a "Double Stack" Slide Stop is used. Using a Standard 1911 Slide Stop in the Tac 4 may well allow the empty magazine to actuate the slide stop, but that is not going to tell you whether or not the pistol will function correctly when using the Kimber part. I suggest that you try the solution I mentioned using the Para part, and if you still have a problem, contact Para and see what they can do for you.
 

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I'm with Shane on this. My C7 had the same prob you speak of with different mags. A quick fix is to see if the slide stop is worn/out of spec. I put the slide stop from my P14 into my C7 and at ist glance it felt ok. I put the ss from my C7 into my P14 and the cycling was rough and nerve-racking. Eureka, I thought. It's merely an out of spec slide stop, as proven by the rough action.

Then I notice the P14 SS in the C7. I could actually push the SS out when NOT aligned with the slide stop detent. The two were completely different. Para confirmed this the next day. Para single stacks utilize a "true" 1911 SS, whereas their double-stack series utilize a seperate SS.

You may be lucky with your application, or your weapon may be out of spec, etc - but doublestack Paras do NOT use "true" 1911 slide stops.
 

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Nearly all slide stops have some kind of dimple in them, not all but most. On occasion the dimple is too deep and wide and does make it too difficult for the mag sprg. This can be easily fixed by recontouring the dimple so the detent pin can slide out of it easier. I don't believe I have ever seen a slide stop on a used gun that didn't have a drag mark below the dimple to one degree or another.

If bending up the top coil on the mag sprg. solves the problem it is a sign that a heavier sprg will work but bending the coil will not be a permanent fix in most cases. After loading up the mag the top coil will gradually bend to the original shape and the problem will return.

Mitommy has a good suggestion. Wolff sprgs will be a bit heavier and are a good addition to your mags anyway.

I doubt this is an MIM, cast, machined barstock, EDMed, plasma discharged depostited or metallic-crystaline directed growth kind of problem.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Ok guys, here is the deal. I emailed Para and they sent me a new slide stop. I was WRONGLY assuming that the Para slode stop was MIM and not cast. And yes, the kimber slide stop out of my series 1 is machined no dimple. I came here asking for help, got chastised for not being an expert, then lectured on the differences between MIM and cast. THEN lectured for not asking Para for help first. My bad on the cast vs MIM. Cast is even weaker than MIM. Someone on the Kimber forum just had a MIM slide stop break after only about 400 rounds or so. I have 2 Kimbers, so I tend to keep up there and not here. I have always found the forums here to be welcoming and helpful for the most part. Maybe I jumped the gun on indentifying the first part as MIM. Like I said, my bad. I am, however not new to 1911s, just been away from them and shooting in general for a time. Never did pretend to know everything about them (shane) and just offered an opinion.

Here is the deal with the replacement from Para. I did not ask for any mods to the part that they were going to send. I just asked for another. I put the new slide release in and all, I mean ALL of the problems that I was having with the slide releasing disappeared. Then I looked at the slide stop that they sent. They had filed the "detent" hole completely out of the end of the slide stop to make the surface flat. You can see where they had filed on the end until the dtent was gone and the slide stop arm is shorter. Funny thing is that is what I had done to the other one to make it work as well. Just flat filed the end of the slide stop until the detent was all but gone. That is why I ordered another.

Para support is wonderful. They are wonderful. The Tac-Four is wonderful. I hope that the forum here can continue to be a place of welcome and learning. I am not an all brands, all types of 1911 expert. That is why I come here and ask questions. I will make sure that they are worded in such a way that they are as inocuous and harmless as possible. I will not pretend to know what is wrong until I find the cause and post the solution. This is my first Para and did not realize that I had angered the 1911 gods with my lack of knowledge and blasphemy.


This is all tounge in cheek guys. Lets all chill and have a good time with what we are here for. To discuss, talk about, learn about and shoot the types of firearms that we love best. I would suggest that you give the new guys a bit more slack and don't take yourselves quite so seriously.

Best wishes.

Jess
 

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Jess, no offense was intended - but I am sorry to say that we DO take ourselves very seriously on this site. We are dealing with thousands of people on this site, about a tool that can have severe implications if mis-handled or mis-assembled.

It is also our job here to filter out the mis-information and outright ignorance about the 1911, its makers, and its design.

The whole "MIM" issue is a case in point. Most people don't even understand completely what it is - and what it is capable of, and what it isn't - so there is a lot of BS going on about this topic. You indicated that you had a MIM-related failure. We corrected you - that is all - nothing more, nothiing less.

In fact, until the "new guy" proves he knows what he's talking about, he will get not get any more "slack" then he deserves. If you come on this site making incorrect statements, you will be corrected - whether you are new or not.

Feel free to PM or email me if you wish to discuss this further.
 
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