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Discussion Starter #1
I had a few inquiries for a thread on the .458 SOCOM, so here goes. The rifle I own was built by Marty van ter Weeme of Teppo Jutsu (see his website at http://www.teppojutsu.com/458.htm )

The round utilizes the same .458 diameter bullets as the venerable .45-70, but is typically loaded a little hotter. The nice thing about the rifle is that it utilizes unmodified AR15 magazines. A 30-round AR mag will hold 11 rounds of .458 in single stack configuration.

For comparative purposes, here is a 500 gr .458 RN versus a traditional 55 gr .223 bullet:





And the rifle again, with a closeup of the business end:





As for ballistics, it depends on bullet weight, powder used, etc. It is possible to get 2000 fps at the muzzle with a 300gr bullet. The 500 gr monsters can be loaded subsonic for use in a suppressed rifle.

It's a real nifty round and rifle, and I enjoy shooting it alot. The hot loads with 405gr bullets, however, can kick like a mule-- about like 12 guage magnums.
 

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I don't know much about the .458 SOCOM, but it sounds pretty impressive!

I have to ask, what is your primary use for that gun? Punching paper? Hunting?

Also, out of curiosity, what does it cost to shoot something like that?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I'm not much of a hunter, so I use it primarily for paper punching. It was designed as a "tactical entry weapon" but since I don't get to bust down doors I don't get to use it in that role. :p

When I first bought the rifle there were no commercial sources of ammo, so I bought a ton of brass and reload for it. I believe CorBon supposedly now sells .458 for about $30 per 20 rounds, so it's not cheap.

Since the lower is a standard AR15 lower, I can always swap out uppers and shoot milsurp 5.56 with it as well.
 

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marvl said:
A 30-round AR mag will hold 11 rounds of .458 in single stack configuration.
When can we expect "10 round" magazines for the .458 that conveniently hold 30 or so rounds of 5.56 ammo?

;)
 

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Good Idea!

I've always liked how those work in my XD...

15 rounds of 9mm in a '10 round' 40 mag...

:rock:
 

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I'm seriously looking at getting an upper from Marty in the spring.

What sight are you using? I have an EOTech I'd use for "CQB" but I'm looking for a scope for hunting.
 

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Marvl, you are a bad boy showing off your 458.

I also have the 458 upper from Marty, and can say without hesitation, it was one of my best gun purchases, in a long time. I plink with mine, shoot paper, rocks, and even took an antelope this last season. Marty is first rate, and completely accessible, not to mention pretty handy with his creations.

Mine is extremely accurate, and have it set up with flip up iron sights, a Comp ML/2 dot, and a couple of scopes. As to the optics, cheap will not cut it. It is ballistically a 45-70, and while it does not kick like a lever action, it still has a bit of giddy-up, on both ends. Reloading is a piece of cake, but dies and brass are a bit on the steep side. Bullets, being .458 diameter, lots of choices. It has been flawless with all of my AR mags, even the cheap ones. The only problem that I have had with it is that it is hard on steel targets. The last time out I popped a weld on a very large spinner. Something about 7 hits on the plate in a couple of seconds. That is a lot of MO.

For me, when I head out to the cabin or woods, I grab my AR, my 458 upper, and my Ceiner 22 LR conversion. This gives me mice to elephant firepower, in a pretty darn handy package. It's a lot like the 1911. I have a couple, with my 460 Rowland conversion, and I will add a 22 upper at some point. This will give me good flexibilty with the 1911. I kinda like the one lower, with a great trigger, and upper choices to make for a good gun battery.

Craig
 

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Discussion Starter #11
bigsapper,

The sight on mine is an Aimpoint Comp ML2. I also have backup irons (GGG), but they're not on the rifle in the pic.


In addition to punching paper, I use my .458 SOCOM for mortar attacks on praire dog holes and triming hard-to-reach tree branches. :D
 

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Hey what if a Bear attacks you while you have your 22 conversion on the AR. Think thats enough gun?

:biglaugh:
 

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Mus,

I guess that one was aimed at me. You presume that I carry the AR in the woods, as my only weapon. When I am shooting the 22 upper, it is usually at prairie dogs, or plinking where I am shooting.

As to bear defense, I spend most of my time in the woods here in NM, and I am seldom without my 454 Casull. As a matter of fact, I had my Casull on my hip during my last bear encounter. The only "weapon" that I drew was my camera. I have a lot of great "shots" of a bear that had an affection for beer, more precisely Tecate. I didn't have the heart to shoot that one, even though I had a tag in my pocket. Hell, he liked my beer. Can't shoot a critter for being weak when it comes to hops.

Craig
 

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I use my 458 Socom for hunting bear and am thinking about taking it with me for hunting moose. I recently had it painted by chameleonweaponry and like it even more.

 

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Bearbait in NM said:
Mus,

I guess that one was aimed at me. You presume that I carry the AR in the woods, as my only weapon. When I am shooting the 22 upper, it is usually at prairie dogs, or plinking where I am shooting.
No it was aimed at all the threads we see around here about people carrying their 9mms and .45s for bear defense.

;)
 

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Mus said:
No it was aimed at all the threads we see around here about people carrying their 9mms and .45s for bear defense.

;)
Mus,

I hope your holidays were enjoyous, and bear free ;^)

At the risk of hijacking this thread, I somewhat agree with you. I say somewhat for a couple of reasons.

In my only bear encounter where a shot was fired, after exhausting all other choices, my Glock in 40 caliber was enough to convince the black bear that I was gonna be too much work. Did it work, yes. Did I feel under gunned, you bet.

I am certainly a long way from being any kind of bear expert, but I have learned a few things from my encounters. The scariest thing that I have learned is just how fast a bear is. My feelings on self-defense with black bears is that if you surprise one, and need to shoot, any holstered sidearm of any caliber is probably not enough. Unless you have a suitable weapon in your hand, almost ready to shoot, you could be toast. This type of situation would be up close, fast happening, with a bear that reacted immediately. Someone might argue that this is exactly what they practice, for the urban "bears". The problem in the woods is that you might be wearing heavy clothing, packs, clothing tied around your waist, binoculars, or many other acutriments that most of us have in the woods. This situation happened with me and a buddy, and a coyote. I was scouting for archery elk, he was packing a 8" 44 mag in a shoulder holster that he does not practice from. When the coyote busted, he ran parallel to us. I had my Casull out, but wanted him to take the shot. He almost dislocated his shoulder trying to get the gun out, and onto the coyote. I just had a good laugh as the coyote headed for parts unknown. If it had been a bear, headed at us, my buddy would have had problems. I MIGHT have had time for one shot. Unless my shot was lucky, it would not have been enough.

I think that running into a black bear at any reasonable distance, 75-100 yards, should not be an issue. This is far enough that more than likely you can do something else, or the bear will almost always do something else. This brings me back to my original point about a 9 or 45 being enough gun. At the longer distances, you should have time to draw, and if you have to shoot, you will have a bit more time. If someone is very comfortable shooting their 9 or 45, then that is probably their best choice of weapon.

I also think that it boils down to whether you are hunting, or doing something else in the woods. When we are hunting, we should be on high alert, at all times. Unless you are small game hunting, you will proabably have something in your hands capable of bear defense. The problem is that most of us spend time in the woods doing other things, where we might not be on full alert. Hell, if I had to spend all of my woods time worrying about the bear around the other side of the bend, I'd get out of the woods. This hit home one day when I found that a cougar had tracked me for a ways, then decided to circle around me. If he had wanted me, there is not one thing in the world that I could have done that would have stopped him. I think that my 45 strapped securely on my hip would have given me the best chance if I had survived the initial attack. I feel that I would have been seperated from any long gun. But back to my point. If a gun, of whatever caliber, gives a person enough confidence to venture forth into the "geat unknown", then by my definition it is enough gun. The only 100% effective bear defense is to stay out of the woods. The next best method would be walk with a shotgun, shouldered, "clearing" every tree or rock. Not an option with me.

If someone wants to carry a 9 or 45, then all that I can say is to practice like crazy, get fast and accurate, and enjoy your time in the woods.

Craig
 

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It looks like a really great cartridge for a lot of purposes. What cartridge case is this beauty based on? Sometimes reforming existing cases is much cheaper than buying the specialty stuff.
 

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It's based on the 50 Action express. But I believe the brass used for forming is drawn out longer than a standard 50AE.

TK
 

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bigsapper whats the price???
My firewall prevents me from currently viewing it.
 
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