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Hi all,

After extensive research into the pros and cons of the 10mm cartridge (much thanks to CastleBravo and viesczy for excellent info), I have convinced myself that my next 1911 should be chambered for 10mm. It seems that performance-wise, it is superior to the .45 in most respects (price and availability are another issue, though). However, I am still at ends with myself deciding what platform I want to shoot 10mm from, and whether it is indeed worth it (financially) to acquire a 10mm gun. The main purpose for this gun would be primarily for carry (once I am old enough to even have a CCW) and possibly for hunting. Here is what I've been thinking about:

OPTION 1: P-16 CONVERTED TO 10MM
The benefit of this option is mainly the hi capacity (18+1 I think?). I have read the posts from viesczy on his conversion, and my main question here concerns the magazines. I have a P-14 w/ 5 hi-caps; will these hi-caps take and feed 10mm, and fit in the P-16, or would I need to buy P-16 mags for it? If so, how many rounds of 10mm does a P-16 magazine hold? Also, if I did go the P-16 route, I would probably want to get a Commander length slide and Bar-sto barrel for carry purposes; does the recoil on a Commander length 10mmm suck badly? I also understand that sight acquisition is faster with shorter slides/barrels.

OPTION 2: SINGLE-STACK CUSTOM
In this case, I would probably purchase all the parts myself from Brownell's and Caspian, and have my gunsmith assemble all the parts for me. Once again, I am leaning towards a Commander length slide from Caspian, but I would like to hear anyone's experiences shooting 10mm from a 4.25" barrel. The advantage here would be smaller size and weight (especially if I went with Caspian's new titanium frame), which would make it more suited for carry purposes. However, I have read several posts about 10mm magazines (CMC and Metalform) that have had problems feeding-- will this be a big issue?

Another issue/dilemma/big freakin' problem is the price and availability question. I get to shoot a whole lot of .45 for free (on the West Point Pistol team), but if I were to get a pistol chambered in 10mm, I would be paying for it out of my own pocket, which is thin enough already. How much more expensive is 10mm compared to .45 of the same brand/type? Would it behoove me to purchase a reloader if I plan to shoot 10mm? I like the fact that there is such a wide variety of loads for 10mm, which are suited for self-defense or hunting.

Thanks in advance for any advice y'all might have for me. I don't plan to make this purchase until early next year...should I wait???

USMA Pistol

P.S.-- TO clear up any confusion from this post:

1) I don't turn 21 until August 2002. I don't really "own" my P-14; my coach is also an FFL dealer who "holds" it for me until I am of age, and I am only allowed to shoot the pistol at the range anyways. I plan to get a Concealed Carry permit for whatever state I happen to be in after graduation (hopefully Texas- Ft. Hood, or Colorado- Ft. Carson).

2) I only plan to buy this pistol AFTER I get my cadet loan in March...I am blowing too much money on guns and booze as it is



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First - I have NO experience with 10mm's. But I would speculate that a 4.25" barrel would produce alot of flash, and perhaps a significant velocity loss. No doubt an experienced 10mm shooter could set this straight.

I personally really like the idea of a 10mm on a 1911 platform. Only problem is a base pistol tough enough for it (and the money to put one together!). If I had the money, I might be sorely tempted to just get a 10mm Glock. It would certainly make a great trail gun as well as suitable for a variety of game applications.

BUT, the good old .45 loaded up to about 25,000 psi (or .45 super) is a very tough alternative, with less strain/wear and tear - and heavier bullets. The more I think about it, the better this sounds. Now, about the money.....
 

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Economy of scale dictates that 10mm ammo will likely always be significantly more expensive than .45 ACP ammo. There just aren't that many 10mm guns around. So, if you plan to shoot much - and this really applies to any caliber - you should seriously consider reloading. Doing so will halve (at least) your shooting costs.
The esteemed Jeff Cooper - one of the world's foremost supporters of the 1911 and .45 ACP - thinks highly of the 10mm. (That does not extend, however, to the "half measure" .40 S&W.)

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If God didn't want us to own guns, why did He make the 1911?
 

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Before you make the plunge, make sure you can use the 10mm for hunting in NY. In my state, the empty cartridge must be over 1" in length. I think the 10mm is, but I know the .45 ACP is not. Barrels less than 6" are not allowed in my state either. Assuming NY has similar hunting regs, check it out before you take the plunge.

Reloading a 10mm is about $200/1000 Thats for new cases. Cost drops to about $100/1000 once your reusing cases. Since your on a pistol team, I'm assuming that you'll go through a lot of ammo, so reloading may be needed.

Concealed carry permits in New York are difficult to get to say the least, unless your Howard Stern. If you can aquire one, great!

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I can only address a few issues.

First I will skip option 1. I have no knowledge of the p-14 so no help here.

On option 2. I just did that recently. I had Baer make me a custom 10mm out of a heavyweight monolith. Great, great gun. It took it longer to break in then I expected. I have put over 1500 rnds down it now and I am just believing it to be broke in. I think the 1.5" 50 yard guarantee has something to do with it. Mine had problems feeding early on which were quickly traced to ammo. The loads I was using were HOT (Silvertips, COR-BON etc) and the gun was sprung for 40 power loads. This rectified, everything is now 100% reliable.

On the trouble feeding from the 10/40 mags, I have experienced this, but it was a gun/spring problem for me, not a mag problem. My 7 mags seem to work just fine with the right loads.

On the 10 ammo, if you reload, 10mm bullets are cheaper then 45's. If you don't reload, and you get free 45 ammo why are you asking this question, shoot the 45.

I have 3 10mm's. An EAA witness (great gun, very reliable but not the best accuracy in the world) a Glock 20 (good gun, but never could get over that glock squishy feel of plastic) and my Baer 10 (great gun, exceptionally reliable and more accurate then I will ever be).

I shoot 10mm's for the power. If I wanted less, I would shoot my 40's or the 45's. If you want the real power of the 10mm, you need to reload, so the cost to shoot is quite small.

Re-reading your post, I would make one other point. A custom 10mm is a 2 to 2.5 grand option with a 4 to 6 month wait. That may be more then you want to spend or wait.

Anyway, good luck.

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To me the only negative aspect of the 10mm is its lack of availability in my area, and the fact that there aren't too many pistols chambered for it.

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USMA...

Stay with the .45 is my advice. Unless you are strictly using the piece to hunt with. And from your post specifying either mag capacity (para) or the shorter slide (commander) it sounds like you aren't going to be doing much hunting.

The 10mm in a commander length is not a good idea. Slide velocity, dwell time, yada yada yada...

Free or near free ammo? No question. Go 45.

I could go on, but I won't waste your time. Ultimately, if you have been bitten by the 10mm bug, you'll have to take some medicine or wait till it gets better. Fortunately I survived my 10mmitis. Outside of the hunting realm, the 45 will do anything the 10 will.
 

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I agree with LW McVay. A well-tuned Govt Model in .45 ACP will serve you much better.

As for the hunting question, some states in the West do permit the .45 ACP for hunting. Check it out. It is a reason to visit some scenic locales.

Unfortunately, my state, NV, is not one of them. AZ or MT may do so.
 

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With modern ammunition, the 10mm is better.

Quit whizzing and moaning about ammunition availbilty! Look on the Internet and you'll be able to find anything that you want. The 10mm will do anything that the .45 will, plus a whole lot more! If you want to live in the 20th century, with 20th century technology, stick with the .45. Oh, you'll be fine, but you'll NEVER know what you're missing if you don't shoot a 10mm!

Scott
 

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LW McVay said:
USMA...

Stay with the .45 is my advice. Unless you are strictly using the piece to hunt with. And from your post specifying either mag capacity (para) or the shorter slide (commander) it sounds like you aren't going to be doing much hunting.

The 10mm in a commander length is not a good idea. Slide velocity, dwell time, yada yada yada...

Free or near free ammo? No question. Go 45.

I could go on, but I won't waste your time. Ultimately, if you have been bitten by the 10mm bug, you'll have to take some medicine or wait till it gets better. Fortunately I survived my 10mmitis. Outside of the hunting realm, the 45 will do anything the 10 will.
Agreed on ammo costs. However, the .45 can do anything the 10mm can do at 50 yards (or so) or less. Longer ranges...the 10mm will do it all BETTER.
 

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JMag said:
Agreed on ammo costs. However, the .45 can do anything the 10mm can do at 50 yards (or so) or less. Longer ranges...the 10mm will do it all BETTER.
hrmm... I never realized that .45 was hitting at 700+ ft/lb at under 50 yards.

Man, I must be shooting the wrong .45 acp...
 

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10mm gives more bounce for the ounce. And one extra round in a single stack.

No, it's not the be all/end all cartridge but it's more versatile than the beloved .45 ACP (which I love too)

The 10mm Silvertip gives more horsepower (fpe) than a .357 magnum and for me, shoots like a 185 +p in a 1911.
 

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sarhog said:
A 4 1/2 year old thread...resurrected from the dead......twice!
Holy shnikey's! I just saw that!

*sigh* newbies. :rolleyes:
 

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outofstep said:
It's called using the search button. :rolleyes:
Yeah, search for already discussed topics to help answer your question, not to ressurect ancient threads. :rolleyes:
 

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Stick with the 45. Personally, I think the 10mm is overkill for personal defense but great for hunting. Kimber makes a 10mm on their stainless frame. I almost bought one but didn't because it would only be a "playtime" gun. If I had the money I would buy the 50GI.
 
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