The extractor pad and deflection

gunwolf said:

I learned by this post I had to remove material from the tensioning wall to reach .460 (closest I could get my homemade gage) . . .

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I applaud your efforts and don't mean to diminish them but because of the .460 gauge you will experience random failures-to-feed with ammo whose rims are greater than .475" in diameter. .475" is the average rim diameter.

If you get the the chance to make a .465" gauge I recommend you fit the extractor to it. That width gauge will set the extractor to work with a much wider array of ammo (rims from .470" to .480").

You may see a micro sliver of light if you hold it just right, some cartridges are not as flat as others. If the case is flat/parallel to the breech...the hook is not touching the case...hook to breech is within .075" to .085"...a .465" wide gage just kisses the tension wall and guide block (deflection at .010")...and the fps doesn't allow clocking of the extractor...then all you have to do is test fire and adjust tension. Do the no magazine test for pattern.

You need magnification such as 2x or 3x glasses or an optivisor (you should get one!) to really see well at this level. And take some decent pics with your cell phone at 2x or x3.

Hang in there. You will get it!

gunwolf said:

. . . no matter what case I use I also have that paper thin light between the case and the breach face.

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Is that happening because the extractor hook is in contact with the case bevel preventing you from being able to push that case flush against the breechface?

Steve in Allentown said:

I applaud your efforts and don't mean to diminish them but because of the .460 gauge you will experience random failures-to-feed with ammo whose rims are greater than .475" in diameter. .475" is the average rim diameter.

If you get the the chance to make a .465" gauge I recommend you fit the extractor to it. That width gauge will set the extractor to work with a much wider array of ammo (rims from .470" to .480").

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Yes. On this part, a difference of .05" is relatively LARGE. I won't stress about a .01 variance if I mess up...but .05" is way to much.

After the deflection is completed, what should the tension be set at it? Weigand says using their tension gauge should be set to 25-28 ounces.

Steve in Allentown said:

Is that happening because the extractor hook is in contact with the case bevel preventing you from being able to push that case flush against the breechface?

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theraptur said:

Like this hook hitting the case and preventing it from sitting flat.



View attachment 674267

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In my case (pun. heh) I tried the case w/o even installing the extractor, thinking maybe the wall was pushing - but, nope. It was always raised on the OTHER side, and even w/o the extractor, you can't hold the case - any case - flush to the breech. Always a razor of light there.

longarm said:

In my case (pun. heh) I tried the case w/o even installing the extractor, thinking maybe the wall was pushing - but, nope. It was always raised on the OTHER side, and even w/o the extractor, you can't hold the case - any case - flush to the breech. Always a razor of light there.

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Might need to look at the breach wall - see how the "J-Cut" was done?

longarm said:

In my case (pun. heh) I tried the case w/o even installing the extractor, thinking maybe the wall was pushing - but, nope. It was always raised on the OTHER side, and even w/o the extractor, you can't hold the case - any case - flush to the breech. Always a razor of light there.

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The area of the breech, the left guide block opposite the extractor, can have a raised spot from a "j-cut" being improper. One of my Tisas had this. I was able to use a couple different needle files to clean it up. I have a thread on it with pics in gunsmithing. Have to search for j-cut and breech and maybe my user name...

Here is my breech j-cut thread about it.

I was going to mention "add yer link!" - but you have and I scanned it earlier, when the term resurfaced. i knew you had one ;-)

Thanks

gunwolf said:

I can do 1911 triggers but never knew about the other important workings until i had an issue with this pistol... I have had it apart about 50 times...even after reading Steve's post on Extractor's It still took some time to fully understand what I was looking for/at. also, no matter what case I use I also have that paper thin light between the case and the breach face. I don't let that bother me, I just figure it's normal... maybe someone will chime in

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A mechanism under spring tension will seek the point of minimum tension if free to due so. In the case of the tensioned extractor bearing on the brass case, this point of minimum tension does not occur when the case head is flat against the breechface. If the edges of the extractor hook are sharp enough, the hook can hold the case in position with the case head flat against the breechface. The case will stick there. But if the extractor hook edges are slightly rounded and smooth, this can allow the case to slip into a position where the extractor is as relaxed as possible (minimum tension). That position has the case head lifted slightly off the breechface on the extractor side.

It is normal.

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Patrick0525 said:

After the deflection is completed, what should the tension be set at it? Weigand says using their tension gauge should be set to 25-28 ounces.

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If the deflection is correctly set to .010", there is no need to try to hit a specific amount of tension. The extractor will function fine across a wide range of tension. In fact, it is hard to bend a correctly fit extractor so much that feeding is compromised. Some say it's impossible.

I do not have the Weigand tension gauge. I know a number of folks who have that gauge but never use it because it's a waste of time.

I thought for sure all of this was in the extractor fitting thread.

megafiddle said:

If the edges of the extractor hook are sharp enough, the hook can hold the case in position with the case head flat against the breechface.

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Understand that what you're describing are 9mm/10mm/.38 Super/9x23/.40 S&W extractors which are normally fit with the edge of the claw making contact with the case unlike a .45 where the contact point between the case and the extractor is at the tensioning wall.

With a properly fit extractor a .45 cartridge will sit flush with the breechface and not be pushed off kilter. The force applied by a .45 extractor is directly perpendicular to the left guide block. The force applied by the other extractors is at an angle to the left guide block. This makes the left guide block a pivot point against which the case will rotate (in this instance horizontally relative to the slide rails).

Steve in Allentown said:

If the deflection is correctly set to .010", there is no need to try to hit a specific amount of tension. The extractor will function fine across a wide range of tension. In fact, it is hard to bend a correctly fit extractor so much that feeding is compromised. Some say it's impossible.

I do not have the Weigand tension gauge. I know a number of folks who have that gauge but never use it because it's a waste of time.

I thought for sure all of this was in the extractor fitting thread.

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Thank u for sharing, I was wondering what the 1911 forum members thought.

Steve in Allentown said:

This is the Weigand extractor bending tool that I've used for many years. Jack now has a new version of the tool that I imagine works just as well as the original.

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Heh heh …don’t see how it is an improved version. Now if it used hydraulics to perform the bend, maybe.
Joe

gunwolf said:

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It looks like you've done a great job fitting your extractor. I wouldn't give that sliver of light a second thought. My guess is the breechface isn't perfectly flat in that area. I wouldn't worry about it.