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Discussion Starter #1
I'm thinking of getting a trigger job done on my Kimber UC II for a lighter pull. I wanted to know what is involved. Can I order the parts myself and drop them in or do I need a gunsmith to work on it. I think the factory pull is 4.5 lbs and I would like to drop it at least a pound. Would it even be worth it?

Thanks in advance,
Matt
 

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oh, my

One 'can' 'drop in' trigger parts (Nowlin, Cylinder & Slide) but it does NOT mean: they WILL 'drop in'; they WILL lower trigger pull weight; they WILL work without further ministration.

But they might.........

If you reveal your geographic location perhaps a know local-to-you 'smith's name could pop up.

Me? I 'dropped in' a Nowlin group, had it NP3'd, and went way down in pull weight, but I'm lucky that way.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Shootcraps said:
That's a pretty light pull for a carry gun. :scratch:
So it wouldn't be worth it. I will probally just buy a lighter mainspring and leave it at that.

Thanks,

Matt
 

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If it is for carry I would also recommend leaving it at 4.5lbs. 3.5lbs would be more suited to the controlled conditions of target/match shooting. Are you sure that's where it is set? You should have a gunsmith test it. Maybe it was incorrectly set at the factory. Are you experiencing creep? If so maybe a fluff and buff trigger job is all you need.
 

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4½ lbs sounds about right, but as Fishbulb said, it's probably heavier than that. My Springer is actually around 6lbs, but is supposed to be 4½ like yours. (All the internals are clean & burr-free.) If you know anyone who has a pull scale, check yours out before telling a smith to lower it to 3½.

Yes, a smooth light trigger does make for a more accurate pistol:)
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Thanks everybody.
No I'm not sure of the trigger weight. I have read that it's supposed to 4.5 lbs from the factory. I'll call the local smith and see if he has a scale. I have polished the hammer, sear and plunger, but have not gotten rid of the cast marks, at least that's what I think they are.

I'm not sure what creep is exactly. Is it the amount of play before I would feel resistance. If so then I have creep. Probally between 5-10 mm.

Also, what is the FLUFF part of a fluff and buff. I'm guessing that the BUFF part is the polishing.

Thanks again for all the input,
Matt
 

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Not to be insulting;

but based upon your postings I would strongly recommend not doing it yourself. Either leave as is or have someone trained work on it.

You'll save yourself a lot of heartache.
 

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That 5-10mm of movement is takeup, not creep and is normal and should be there. Creep is any movement you feel after all of the 'takeup' is gone. You want the hammer to fall after you take up all of the slack, then pull a little more. If you can feel the trigger move more after all of the slack is gone, that's 'creep' and is not good. creep does not mean anything is wrong, it just means that it's not perfect. Some of the engagement surfaces are not as smooth as they could be or there is some uneven friction in the trigger/hammer/sear/disconnector assembly.

For a carry gun, I'd stay above 4 lbs. You could put a lighter mainspring in to lower your stock pull a little, but not most people don't recommend going too low on a carry gun.
 

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The best way I have heard creep descibed is that it is the opposite of a trigger that breaks like a glass rod. With the hammer cocked pull back on the trigger. You will feel free slack until the bow of the trigger(inside the frame) comes in contact with the sear. If, after that stop in movement, you can produce any percievable movement, by slowly sqeezing the trigger, between that point and the point at which the hammer falls you have creep. This problem is often caused by rough engagement surfaces.

If you have creep try this first. Many call this "boosting". UNLOAD THE WEAPON. Cock the hammer. With your thumb apply slight pressure to the hammer in the same direction it will fall when the trigger is pulled. Pull the trigger while maintaining this pressure and let the hammer fall. Repeat until the creep is reduced or eliminated. The will speed up the process of the sear and hammer hooks seating together. Many report success with this technique but my NIB 1911s needed more.


Often a detailed strip of the firearm a nice polish job on the sear and hammer hook contact surfaces will eliminate the creep. This will require you do the legwork (search function) on this BB to find out how to take the weapon down to it basic components, what types of stones to use for polishing and then how to reassemble the weapon. Read lots on the subject first and explore all the links to diagrams you can find. Go very slow on the polishing as the goal is to leave the angles and depths of the moving surfaces the same as they came from the factory, just shinnier. This is the "Fluff and Buff" work that is really just a polish job like you wrote. A gunsmith can do this for a modest fee. I just like to tinker.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
1911Fishbulb said:
The best way I have heard creep descibed is that it is the opposite of a trigger that breaks like a glass rod. With the hammer cocked pull back on the trigger. You will feel free slack until the bow of the trigger(inside the frame) comes in contact with the sear. If, after that stop in movement, you can produce any percievable movement, by slowly sqeezing the trigger, between that point and the point at which the hammer falls you have creep. This problem is often caused by rough engagement surfaces.

If you have creep try this first. Many call this "boosting". UNLOAD THE WEAPON. Cock the hammer. With your thumb apply slight pressure to the hammer in the same direction it will fall when the trigger is pulled. Pull the trigger while maintaining this pressure and let the hammer fall. Repeat until the creep is reduced or eliminated. The will speed up the process of the sear and hammer hooks seating together. Many report success with this technique but my NIB 1911s needed more.


Often a detailed strip of the firearm a nice polish job on the sear and hammer hook contact surfaces will eliminate the creep. This will require you do the legwork (search function) on this BB to find out how to take the weapon down to it basic components, what types of stones to use for polishing and then how to reassemble the weapon. Read lots on the subject first and explore all the links to diagrams you can find. Go very slow on the polishing as the goal is to leave the angles and depths of the moving surfaces the same as they came from the factory, just shinnier. This is the "Fluff and Buff" work that is really just a polish job like you wrote. A gunsmith can do this for a modest fee. I just like to tinker.
Thanks for the info. It's funny how you define the "fluff and buff", because this is exactly what I did a couple of months ago. I already new how to detail strip my firearm and found the info on this board. I am new to the firearm world, this is my second gun in a year. I traded in my P.O. p-12 for a Kimber UC II and I too like to tinker and I wanted to know exactly how the gun works. So I researched this board and found alot of great advice, but decided to do the polishing on my own. I did not use any stones, just some polishing compund and my dremel accessories and got a very nice mirror finish. I know now I never had any creep. I haven't had a chance to fire the gun since the polishing job and I just installed a new lightweight trigger tonight. My first step will be to fire a few hunmdred rounds Saturday, while taking my CCW class, to see how the polishing affected the trigger pull. I will then probally buy a lighter mainspring and take the gun to thesmith to have the trigger pull measured.

Thanks again for all the great advice and info. Please keep it coming,

Matt
 

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First, 5-10mm of takeup is not possible on a 1911 - that is about 1/4 -1/2 inch. It is usually more like 1mm. Second, polishing the sear and hammer engagement surfaces without the proper fixtures and stones is a very bad idea. Unlike many modern DAO/SA designs, the 1911 depends on exact, sharply defined angles on the engagement surfaces of the hammer hooks and sear nose for safe, reliable operation. Also, the spring weights and sear spring adjustments interact with the angles. This is not a project for the inexperienced especially on a gun that might be carried.
 

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really really light trigger pull weight (under 2lb)

NOT for: inexperienced / nerved-up / excitable / arthritic / brain-dead shooters.

My current 1911 has what most consider a too-light trigger, but I do not carry it without a complete re-familiarization session.
But I like it........:rock:
 

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Discussion Starter #14
DBR said:
First, 5-10mm of takeup is not possible on a 1911 - that is about 1/4 -1/2 inch. It is usually more like 1mm. Second, polishing the sear and hammer engagement surfaces without the proper fixtures and stones is a very bad idea. Unlike many modern DAO/SA designs, the 1911 depends on exact, sharply defined angles on the engagement surfaces of the hammer hooks and sear nose for safe, reliable operation. Also, the spring weights and sear spring adjustments interact with the angles. This is not a project for the inexperienced especially on a gun that might be carried.
The takeup on my gun is 3mm. And how can polishing it myself be a bad idea. I did not remove any material, change any angles of any parts or deminish the integrity of any of the parts. I didn't take a file and sandpaper to them, I simpley used a polising pad and a specific compound for the material. Could the sufaces be better, yes, but I'm not willing to do it because it will involve using stones, sandpaper, etc. I just gave it a smoother and brighter surface. I guess what I did would be more like buffing the parts.

Matt
 

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In-correct polising can ?"break" edges that need to sharp/ crisp for safe functioning!

When I think of trigger pull weight for a carry gun or any modification (i.e. removing the mag safety on a BHP) I look up the State laws where I live on what is permitted for law enforcement. I then weigh my abilities and expierence to the given range to decide. IIRC my state allows LEO single action pulls down to 3.5 pounds. I've been shooting pistols for 12+ years and have sent many upon many rounds down range. Plus I've attended plenty of formal matches; won some events/ divisions at some. If it ever comes to it I have freinds and others that have knowledge of my abilities with firearms to stand up in court and tell the jury why a 4 pound trigger is safe for me to use.

IMHO the more expierence and practise the better you will be able to safley handle a light trigger weight. Practise needs to be of the quality type: each shot aimed carefully, sending it where you want it to go etc.

A crisp feeling trigger (think smooth) is far better than a light one.:cool:
 

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Sounds like you are well on the way to getting it the way you want. I would agree with the points made here regaurding court situations. If you ever have to defend yourself in court the prosecution will likely use a feather trigger as a way to paint you full of bad intent. Ask your CCW instructor about the trigger pull weights he thinks are most desirable for concealed carry.

FYI. I swapped out my SA Mil-Spec mainspring for the standard mainspring and really didn't notice a percievable reduction in the pull. There is a great write up in the tech tips section at Brownells.com reguarding trigger pull adjustments you might want to read. The writer asserts that the pull is set with greater precision by adjustment of the sear spring more than anything else.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I think what I'm utimatly looking for is a smooth trigger pull. I got to shoot today and it seems to be smoother after the work I've done. I'm fine with the weight of the pull and I'm pretty happy with the way it shot today. I actually was more accurate than I have ever been.

Thanks for all the great info,

Matt
 

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don't forget

A high-quality grease (I use Tetragrease) on the sear; a high-quality lube (I use Breakfree CLP) on the other moving parts.

Lots on toy guns, little on social guns.
 
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