[Kayser]

Just got back from my 3rd range trip with a new Stainless Classic. Or, I should say, an _attempted_ range trip.

After several major malfunctions (including a case rupture and two doublings < 100 rounds apart), I had sent the gun back to the factory for repairs. It came back quickly enough - and they had remarked "can not duplicate condition".

I'm the furthest thing from a 1911 expert, but I strongly suggested that I thought the disconnector had a problem. Apparently they didn't think this was worth checking.

Before I left today, I field stripped the gun, and tested the solidity of the disconnector. I could get the hammer to drop with the damn thing 1/2 way depressed, or _more_. Not being an expert, I thought that maybe that was normal. Out to the range I go, intending to have the smith verify what I was seeing. It didn't take him more than 10 seconds to get the hammer to drop in a clear out-of-battery condition. "Ooh. That's bad" he said. He was able to make it happen several more times. He guessed the disconnector was short and/or loose.

Great - I sent a majorly malfunctioning gun back to the factory and they send it back to me just as dangerous as ever. I strongly suspect my original case rupture was due to an out-of-battery discharge. Chances are the same faulty disconnector caused the doublings.

I'm done with this gun at this point. And, sadly, I will never buy anything from Kimber again. And I think I'll be staying away from semi-autos as well

This gun is getting drop-kicked out the door.

Anyway, I'd appreciate any input on the best way to get rid of this POS. Could I send it to Kimber for a refund or something, and have them dispose of it? There's no way I'll put this gun in a position where it could be re-sold to someone else and blow up in their hands. Is there any way I can at least recover part of the $800 price tag on this thing?

 

[1911COBRA]

I would call Dennis (best person to deal with in my expierence) at the custom shop and explain the situation to him and follow it up with an email to Dennis and Kimber top management.

Sniper if you read this could you supply the President's email address?

I also would demand all shipping charges to be paid by Kimber. Make sure that you return copies of the paperwork from the first time you sent the gun in for work.

I've had a couple of go rounds with Kimber and so far this approach has worked for me.

Keep copies of all paperwork, emails, faxes etc. etc., in case things really get nasty.

 

[Howardk]

Kayser,

I understand your frustration with Kimber. Their lack of attention to the problem was inexcusable. But, a disconnector is a cheap part--less than $20 bucks--and no fitting is required. Why not get a new disconnector and then see if the gun is reliable? Personally, I wouldn't dump a gun just because of an out of spec disconnector. BTW, while the doubling might have been due to the disconnector, the case rupture could have just been a bad round.

 

[Kayser]

I might consider it, but the bottom line is - I'm no expert on semi-auto pistols. I have no real mechanism through which I can take a look at the gun and say to my self "yes. this gun is in perfect working order". Its not like my .308 tack driver

My whole reason for getting into handgunning was for pure fun. Not defense, not competition. Just raw, no-brainer fun. This piece has been anything but that. The 1911 _is_ a beautiful gun, and was a complete joy to shoot for the hour or so before it went whacko. Maybe a pair of revolvers (.357, .22) would be more my speed.

I sent off a semi-lengthy email to Kimber explaining the situation. I'll wait and see what they say.

[This message has been edited by Kayser (edited 11-23-2001).]

 

[Kimberholic]

Sorry to hear you got a lemon. Keep us posted though with any new developments. I am interested in how Kimber handles this. The right thing to do is to offer to buy the pistol back from you for what you paid, tax and all, plus shipping. I read a horror story about a Taurus Millenium .40 cal that just completely started coming apart(I think it was posted over on The Firing Line) and the guy got a full refund including on accessories that he had purchased. Now that was good customer service. You should expect the same from Kimber.

 

[Gargoyle]

How about this scenario...
I've had the CDP into the shop twice. First time for a faulty barell, and the second time because the replaced barrel was more faulty than the first. Now, the night sight on the front sight post went out. Notorious CDP problem the company knows about, yet didn't replace the sights the last two times the gun was in the shop. Within a three month period I am facing a combined total of $105 in shipping charges. Would it be out of the question to ask that my shipping on this night sight problem be covered by the company?

------------------
If you don't mind being where you are, you are not lost.

 

[Kimberholic]

I don't think it is wrong to ask them to pay shipping, Gargoyle. What was wrong with the barrels?

 

[gunny]

Kayser,
Don't scrap the Kimber. You can install a quality disconecter yourself. Or you could have a 'smith do it. Shouldn't cost too much if you feel more comfortable having a 'smith complete the job. You have a quality 1911. Most 1911 fans end up replacing most of the internals sooner or later.


good shootin, gunny

 

[Str8_Shot]

Kayser

What brand of ammo were you using when you had the case rupture? You did not mention in your first post. Was this new factory ammo, "factory" reloads, or personal reloads? I have seen a couple of case ruptures and depending on how the case separated they are very rarely a firearm problem. For the most part they are a manufacturing, or reloading issue.

Now the case of your pistol doubling, this is definately a pistol issue. A real exciting one at that. Specifically it is an issue with the hammer and sear, in addition to the disconnector. When your smith inspected your pistol did he inspect the hammer and sear, and did he make any comments about them?

I suggest you do the following.

1. Contact Kimber as suggested and get a pre-paid shipping label for your pistol.

2. Take your pistol to your smith and ask him to give you a complete safety evaluation, including a letter stating the condition of the pistol. What ever your smith charges for this service it will be worth it.

3. Send the pistol back to Kimber with the letter from your smith, and any previous documentation that shows they have already worked it for this problem. In your letter, be polite, but do ask them to either fix the pistol or refund your money. Any reputable firm will do one or the other, and I expect Kimber will take the necessary steps to prove that they really are a reputable firm.

If for some reason Kimber repeats the claim that they can not find anything wrong with your pistol, rather than trying to sell a defective pistol I suggest you have your smith correct the items identified earlier. Replacing the disconnector should cost around $50, and I would expect replacing the hammer, sear, and disconnector to be in the neighborhood of $150. The reason I suggest this is you will not get much in trade for a good pistol, let alone a "defective" pistol. I agree with your ethics, I would not want to kick a defective pistol out the door without either disclosing the problems (and taking a big hit to the price) or fixing the problem first. I know it is a little hard to think about putting another $150, or more if you want more customizing done, into a new pistol. But speaking as someone that has put $800 into a $400 pistol, if you are going to fix the problem, then you should keep the pistol if it is truely fixed, and a good smith won't give if back to you unless its fixed.

If you decide to part with the pistol and not have it fixed first. Ask your smith to remove and destroy the hammer, sear, and disconnector. Then sell, or trade, the pistol without these parts. When you are asked why they are missing, say you felt the installed parts were unsafe and you would not let the pistol go with the parts installed. You will still lose some of your original cost, but you will be totally honest about the condition of the pistol when you send it down the road.

I hope this helps.


------------------
Str8_Shot

The best handgun for self defense, is the one you have with you.

[This message has been edited by Str8_Shot (edited 11-26-2001).]

 

[Kayser]

That sounds like great advice. At the moment, I'm waiting to hear back from Kimber itself on how they want to approach the situation. I explained the full set of events clearly (the original rupture was "factory" reloaded ammo), and asked how they could help me resolve things. Everything's purely on the cordial level at the moment

Given the satisfaction people have expressed in the forums, I fully expect a positive outcome. I will most definitely follow up as things progress.

As far as the disconnector goes, maybe some people here could help me verify what I'm seeing. Take the slide off, cock the hammer. The disconnector protrudes just a hair under 1/16" normally, correct? Push it down 1/4 of that distance and pull the trigger. Should the hammer drop? How about 1/2? Now, push it down something somewhere near 1/2 and fiddle with the trigger. Suppose the hammer drops to half cock one out of 6 times you do this, and when it happens, the disconnector remains apparently "held down" until you bring the hammer all the way back. Busticated?

[This message has been edited by Kayser (edited 11-27-2001).]

 

[Sniper]

Kayser

Hello my fellow "kick the Dirty K out the door" compadre

Maybe you want to read this thread... it may help you get somewhere with your troubles. Also, I have posted all phone numbers and addresses that may be of some use to you if you sort through the "saga" (I have been unable to locate any useful email addresses).

http://kimber.infopop.net/3/OpenTopic?a=tpc&s=729299964&f=393299635&m=3782904912

Feel free to email me if you'd like and I would be happy to reduce your 'foot'work in locating necessary information.

[email protected]

Best of luck!

"If guns cause crime, then mine are defective."

 

[Sniper]

oops! p.s.

Hello Gargoyle! How have you been?

May I please quote and respectfully respond to statements made by Kimberholic and Str8_Shot?

...got a full refund including on accessories that he had purchased. Now that was good customer service. You should expect the same from Kimber.

Any reputable firm will do one or the other, and I expect Kimber will take the necessary steps to prove that they really are a reputable firm.

My response: In my experience with Dirty K this couldn't be further from the truth.

Kayser - Have you heard the legal term "sale of a faulty firearm" before??? This issue makes quite a few government "agencies" a little upset with firearms manufacturers...

Have a great day everyone!!!

 

[mavrick]

Hey Sniper,

How's things?? I'm guessing the Bella saga continues on.. you'll have to drop me an email to bring me up to date ok? All the best, later

mavrick

 

[Sniper]

Mavrick

Hello to ya too! Hope you're feeling better. The "saga" continues but in a different arena now. Lil update for ya...?

We were wondering if you had gotten your refund yet? I noticed that you haven't posted anything lately on the forums. How's is that Springfield running? I and another Kimber employee would like to thank you for the two Super Matches. We purchased them since their return to the factory. They run great. Really accurate too. Let us know what's going on. Hope to hear from you soon.

Jon
Kimber Custom Shop

hmmmmm...

[This message has been edited by Sniper (edited 11-27-2001).]