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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Threaded Brass Bushing? *updated w/ pics*

The gun came from Texas, and was wondering if anyone could recall any smiths who'd start with a job w/ a threaded bronze/brass bushing?
I've not heard of anyone using brass or bronze to make a threaded barrel bushing out of the stuff...
But I'll be darned if my Safari Arms Govt. has one.
I'll have pics up tomorrow-- The gun has obviously been worked over--
Someone's flared the ejection port and dovetailed for a new front sight.
They polished the feedramp, back of slide and the barrel throat.
For another thing-- it's got what appears to be a springfield barrel.
 

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Waiting for the picture. The flange area behind the lug of a 1911 barrel bushing seems too thin to thread without a good reason, the thread would have to be very fine I'm thinking. I'm having a hard time visualizing it. And why would anyone bother? New barrel bushings are cheap, and can be had oversize.
 

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The Briley ball bushing insert is TiN coated steel, not brass.

Safari Arms made some guns out of beryllium copper, wonder if one of their bushings might have strayed over to a stainless gun. But threaded? There have been some done, but brass?

Pictures are definitely needed.
 

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The Brownells catalog says the Briley spherical oversize bushing has the skirt threaded to accept a special mandrel to make turning the OD easier for fitting. Could this be what you are seeing?
 

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Dang: I thought the Briley was brass. I'll have to look closer. SW uses them on some prerformance center guns. What is the advantage to Ti coating , I'm not familier with it?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Sadly boys, this ain't Ti-nitride nor is it a Safari Arms/ Olympic Arms stock piece-- after posting about this, I went to do a full function check and frame strip as is SOP for a used firearm.
What I've found has me seriously miffed-- gun was acquired on trade through gunbroker, and from the supplied photos, led to believe the gun was in 90% condition.
Instead, aside from this weird bushing, I've found the barrel to be a Springfield. The rearsight is sticking out from the slide by a 3/8th inch.
The thumbsafety failed to prevent hammer drop.
The slide obviously had the problem of riding back beyond the frame-- slide sticking out-- and instead of sanding down the barrel legs, the previous owner used a rotary grinder and ground down the back of the slide to match the frame. Unfortunately he did this while the slide was still on the frame and so the gripsafety tangs show equal signs of metal removal. There's galling along the top of the frame beside the disconnector-- deep enough that by the looks even an 800 grit buffing compound won't remove it.
The ejector sticks out the back by a good 5/16th of an inch-- and I'm worried that it maybe actually touching the hammer as it goes past.
Oh yeah, did I mention the thumb safety failed?
I've written the guy who made the trade-- he's already got my old gun up on gunbroker and there's bids on it-- I'm hoping he'll close out the auction and make good on this since he basically misrepresented the firearm (to me this gun's at best in 30% condition without the faulty thumb safety) and failed to make sure that it could pass a basic function check.

Pictures of the bushing:




You'll note that the slide and bushing are a fine threading-- and although it doesn't show in the pictures, there's the little O on the backside from being poured into a mould. Completely nonferous and weighs a little over a quarter of an ounce.
What this means to me at this point, and as I'll explain to the guy who "sold" it to me-- if I send this into Olympic Arms (they've gained some respect in my eyes, they told me they'd honor all waranties from old Safari Arms pistols before the oly arms buy-out)-- It won't be just for a refinish-- at this point I'm looking at having to have metal added back to the rear of the frame and having a new slide fitted. So, it's gone from a minor project to a complete rebuild.
If I were looking at an old Hoag or Clark pistol I'd grin and bear it-- but for a cast frame commercial pistol, I'm not happy to say the least. Monday can't roll around quickly enough for a change, I'm sick over this and worry that the guy won't honor our trade.
 

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You wuz robbed.

The bushing resembles the Behlert threaded design (I finally remembered who did them first.) made up in non-ferrous alloy. Like I said, maybe the beryllium copper that Safari Arms fooled around with.
 

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I don't believe a bronze bushing would stand up to firing stresses. In fact, I wouldn't even fire it. IMO the gun is worthless and you got totally hosed.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Can anyone think of any legal recourse I might have to level as a threat should this guy try to put this one (any further) over on me?
Gunbroker has their caveat warning, but surely this guy sold the gun aware of the safety defect and knowingly misrepresenting the condition of the firearm as being 90% when there was so obvious machining to the back slide/frame fit and such things as the ejector sticking out of the back and the rear sight sticking out of the slide.
 

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Armorer, I'm sorry someone did this to you. The time we live in is big on situational ethics. You know that if the guy is like that he will probably give you bad feedback if you give him bad feedback, that's part of situational ethics. Bad feedback will haunt you as badly as it does him. By the way, how was his feedback? Is the value of the trade worthy of having your lawyer write him a letter? Sometimes that's enough to get people to reverse course. If he doesn't comply you have to decide whether he gets away with it or not. If he does get away with it he will do that over and over again until someone makes him do the right thing. The law protects scum like that, if you try legal action not only will you pay way more than it's worth but in the end he may not comply with a small claims judgement anyway! People like that often know from experience how to use the law against good people, and how to stay out of the clutches of it themselves.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Spent the morning on the phone with the guy, and he's pulled a fast one.
Although I provided him with a screen shot of the old Ad--he claims I've digitally edited out information about the disabled thumb safety. Furthermore, Gunbroker's not responded, but I seriously doubt any word will be forth coming-- his claims that 90% to him is strictly backed by GB's caveat, and he finished with some pretty harsh threats.
"And before you go thinking about suing me young man, remember you traded me another gun for this and it'll be the word of me and my employees on the condition of the gun before you received it, much less the state of your gun."
This was before I'd had a chance to even suggest possible litigation-- so he has done this in the past.
In talking over with my lawyer, the best we'd hope for in a case is to get him to pay up the cost of repairing the gun since a replacement on a used gun would not work. Furthermore, said cost of repairs would not be able to exceed the cost of a new gun-- and as such, I'd be at best looking at maybe 500 dollars maximum. To top it off, HIS (my lawers) bill would probably be as little as 3 times that if we had to actually go to court-- complicated further by the fact the guy's in texas...so there'd be travel expenses thrown in.
And as production stated, the guy, if he lost, could still probably appeal the or just flatley refuse to pay-- leaving me hanging with a busted gun and a huge lawyer bill.

Third call this morning was to Andy at OlyArms (Folks, I've dealt with alot of company reps over the years, but this had to be the most humbling, humanly considerate conversation I've ever had with a MFG). As shop manager, he explained a new upper assembly would ballpark 209, probably another 30 for a new grip safety and thumb safety, and a 65 dollar an hour job. I didn't have it in me to ask what refinishing would cost.

I am at a loss of who else to send it to for rebuilding, and I'd be lying if I said a 300 bill wasn't going to hurt me.
 

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I suppose if you mentioned the guys GB handle he'd sue you, ironic, huh?:mad: How about the URL of the GB ad, that's public property.
 

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I'd love to see a copy of the GB ad. Wouldn't bother me a bit to spread the news that the seller is a dick.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Thank you guys, I feel like such a d**ned loser on this one. To reiterate-- as an unemployed english teacher doing freelance editing on texts books-- I edit some 300 pages of stuff for about 5.50 an hour over the course of a couple of weeks for base-minimum. All my hopes at this point are in getting a McGraw-Hill contract for their internet courses-- at which point I'm editing online courses (tests, graphics etc.) for much more--But I'll be lucky to hear of anything much before X-mas.
And this turdburgler has given me heck of a gift as is:
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=85061900

Up until saturday night when I made to check the ad for anything I might have misinterpreted or missed-- the guy had no feedback past october. Lastnight when I checked, he suddenly had feedback the same week as I made the deal-- which just seems funny to me since GB supposedly logs feedback when posted. Somehow I don't think it's system needing refreshing...
What gets me is he's denying he ever made an offer for the typical 3-day inspection period, claiming that because there was no logged bid on Gunbroker, I could be just some random guy who bought it out of his store. Right-- and I walked back to Georgia from there. Lasttime I checked, Tx didn't recognize the Georgia CCW as a legal means of purchasing anything other than a long gun. Because he paid 30 dollars to ship the gun over my two transfer fees and next day air (25 per transfer, 35 for shipping), he says even steven.
He refuses to return my gun because there's bids on it-- despite the fact all his ads state the auction might be subject to early closure should someone buy the gun out of his store.
This hungry fiend has his eyes on some cash-- he posted the desert warrior for 500-- knowing full well what kind of bidding war it'd bring on.

NOTE that his required opening bid safari arms 1911 was 595.

This is the first time I've ever had a problem with GB-- I've made some great deals and good friends through that website.

On my own behalf, here's the email I sent to him saturday afternoon-- when he talked to me today, he told me he'd read it then. He never wrote me back (obviously leading to today's dissappointing phone conference) and accused me that I was complaining about the aesthetics when I state that that isn't the case in the email (second paragraph). He then told me I was trying to gouge him to pay for the repairs-- again, not the case.
...
I'll just let the email speak for itself:
Dear *****,
This is **** out in Valdosta with whom you made a swap for a Kimber in trade for your Safari Arms 1911. I was able to pick up the pistol today and made to fieldstrip and clean the gun before taking it out to shoot. This is where I started noticing a few issues:
1) The hammer will still fall when the thumb safety is engaged-- upon closer inspection, someone has filed away the safety's block.
2) Someone used a dremel or rotorary grinder the the add the flare to the ejection port.
3) Slide was at one point projecting off the back of the frame--or "off battery." Again, a grinder was used to even up the slide to the frame, however, this has removed metal from the left gripsafety tang. Furthermore the ejector was never fit and now sticks out of the back of the frame/slide by a couple fractions of an inch and possibly making contact with the hammer.
4) Factory barrel and bushing replaced: Barrel is excellent condition Springfield. The bushing, however, appears to to be Beryllium Bronze and furthermore threaded into the slide.
5) The original factory front sight has been cut off and the slide dovetail for a new one. Rear sight appears factory-- however it's cast off the slide by a 3/8th inch. The old front sight was a stake-on, and the though covered by the new dovetail, the old sight hole was never filled in.
6) minor galling along frame rails, however, the worst of which is across the top of the frame by the disconnector.

At this point, the gun is below the advertised 90%, and would otherwise cost me in excess to 300 dollars to repair. Since we struck our deal lastweek, I have contacted Olympic Arms about sending the pistol in for routine maintenance and inquired about possibly retrofitting the existing pistol for a bull barrel and new gripsafety. With the current issues with the safety alone I do not feel safe shooting this pistol, much less carrying it. The cosmetics (wear, rear sight, bushing) are not what concerns me-- the fun failed a primary safety check, the frame and slide have been compromised, the ejector is improperly fitted and runs a risk of damage to the gun and operator.

At this point sending it into Olympic Arms would require a complete rebuild.
Here's what I'm looking at:
1) silver solder frame to rebuild gripsafety ears and fill in galling along the rails and top of frame by disconnector.
2) Fit new slide to frame
3) Fit new barrel
4) Fit new bushing and recoil plug
5) Fit and install new grip safety
6) Fit and install new thumb safety
7) Fit new ejector and extractor
8) Fit and match trigger, sear, disconnector; and mate to gripsafety and thumb safety.
9) Refinish gun

I'm sorry sir, but between parts and labor, I'd have to invest between 400 up to 800 dollars to completely repair a gun I'd perceived would only need some minor touch up work. Having already spent 80 dollars on transfer fees and shipping-- I hope you can understand how I felt when I engaged the safety failed during function check. Please write back soon as we need to discuss what is to be done about this matter, otherwise I can call you first thing monday morning. Again, I hope that this does not come across as being rude, you'd told me when we first talked last week that you'd done trades in the past and had to renig due to a poor description of the gun or misrepresented wear. You have otherwise, to this point, been extremely helpful and more than affable-- I pray we can come to an agreement and that you will not bear any ill towards me or possible future transactions we might make.
 

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Armorer said:
...I'll just let the email speak for itself:
quote ...
1) The hammer will still fall when the thumb safety is engaged-- upon closer inspection, someone has filed away the safety's block.
2) Someone used a dremel or rotorary grinder the the add the flare to the ejection port.
3) Slide was at one point projecting off the back of the frame--or "off battery." Again, a grinder was used to even up the slide to the frame, however, this has removed metal from the left gripsafety tang. Furthermore the ejector was never fit and now sticks out of the back of the frame/slide by a couple fractions of an inch and possibly making contact with the hammer.
4) Factory barrel and bushing replaced: Barrel is excellent condition Springfield. The bushing, however, appears to to be Beryllium Bronze and furthermore threaded into the slide.
5) The original factory front sight has been cut off and the slide dovetail for a new one. Rear sight appears factory-- however it's cast off the slide by a 3/8th inch. The old front sight was a stake-on, and the though covered by the new dovetail, the old sight hole was never filled in.
6) minor galling along frame rails, however, the worst of which is across the top of the frame by the disconnector... close quote
Just some objective observations on your above points.... More detailed pics would help answer the mail here. Doesn't solve your problem, but might clear up some issues.
1) Unacceptable. Fit a new thumb safety.
2) Ejection ports are often flared with a rotary tool. Is it poorly done? Can it be cleaned up with a little work?
3) Slides are often overhanging in the back, especially after changing a barrel. They must be blended by (preferably) filing to match the frame. Standard fitting technique. A "grinder" can be used, but it must be finished with files/sandpaper. Same with the ejector. Not difficult at all. Why would it contact the hammer? Too wide/bent? Where was metal removed on the tang, top/back?
4) Do you have to unscrew the bushing to remove it or just turn it a bit to one side? I can't tell form your pics. How well does it fit?
5) Front sight holes are seldom filled when you cut a dovetail. It is of no consequence. Rear cast off? Do you mean offset in the dovetail? Loose? Can it be drifted back to center?
6) Is the galling from someones poor attemt at tightening the slide to frame fit, residual from the factory fit, or just from firing wear?
 

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BBBBill said:
Just some objective observations on your above points.... More detailed pics would help answer the mail here. Doesn't solve your problem, but might clear up some issues.
1) Unacceptable. Fit a new thumb safety.
2) Ejection ports are often flared with a rotary tool. Is it poorly done? Can it be cleaned up with a little work?
3) Slides are often overhanging in the back, especially after changing a barrel. They must be blended by (preferably) filing to match the frame. Standard fitting technique. A "grinder" can be used, but it must be finished with files/sandpaper. Same with the ejector. Not difficult at all. Why would it contact the hammer? Too wide/bent? Where was metal removed on the tang, top/back?
4) Do you have to unscrew the bushing to remove it or just turn it a bit to one side? I can't tell form your pics. How well does it fit?
5) Front sight holes are seldom filled when you cut a dovetail. It is of no consequence. Rear cast off? Do you mean offset in the dovetail? Loose? Can it be drifted back to center?
6) Is the galling from someones poor attemt at tightening the slide to frame fit, residual from the factory fit, or just from firing wear?
Good point.

To the OP: The safety problem you pointed out is, frankly, a safety issue and all should agree it is indeed in need of correction.

But the bushing? Why do you assume it must be replaced? How does the gun shoot & function with it?

One would think that installing such a bushing would require threading and machining BEYOND simple fitting; i.e., someone paid extra for these improvements - yet you have decided they require replacement simply because you are not familiar with such technology?

Again, I ask: how does the gun function with the installed bushing? If it is not clearly broken or dangerous, they why are you demanding that it be altered to your specifications?

The remaining defects would appear to be merely cosmetic, though to serious gun "collectors" such things matter. I simply own guns to shoot and I focus on function and accuracy over looks - but that's just me.

Regards,

TY
 
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