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We had a recent incident at a Home Depot parking lot where a young man was robbed at gunpoint in the early evening hours. Fortunately he gave up his wallet and very little money and the hold-up guy was pissed and ran off. :rolleyes: No shots fired by either side, and that is a good thing.

If I were faced with this situation, delivering lead into some perp is not advisable except in rare dire situations that my local gonverment does not trust me to decide. :bawling:

From what I have read and been trained, it is advised ( by several self defense experts) to carry a "spare" throw-down wallet or cash in case you are mugged/held-up. This way you don't give up the "important" stuff.

I recently split the contents of my wallet into crucial and non-crucial cards and it is suprisingly even. Drivers license, big cash, debit and credit card(s) in a very simple bifold (the thinest two pocket design I could find) in my front pocket with Kershaw Leek knife clipped to pocket edge. Supermarket cards, business cards, membership cards, etc.. in the throw-down wallet in my back pocket. I put a few ones in there as a token and distraction as I would likely be nervous and shaking and "accidentaly" drop my wallet and run "like a firm breeze" :biglaugh: to get out of there. Plus this small cash can be used for small items when necessary.

Do you have a throw-down wallet or am I being paranoid? :rolleyes:
 

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I don't know if it's nessesary. What I figured I'd do, as I usually keep the change from purchased and a few small bills loose in my pocket is to grab that and give it to 'em.
 

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throw down the perp!

What sort of feel good garbage is that? I guess the sort that used to let a few dirt bags take over a plane and it's 200 occupants.
 

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Well I don't have a so called "throw down wallet" but it sounds like a good idea, because (not that it wouldn't be justified if the dude had a gun) shooting and possibly killing someone over 50.00 and a wallet seems stupid if it can be avoided with something like this secondary wallet. I really don't carry a wallet at all I hate it back there especially when I am sitting down. I keep some cash, an Am-ex card and my D.L. in my front pocket, I really don't know what else you need to stuff in a wallet. But this has inspired me to look into what you are talking about. I like the concept. But on the other hand if it is at gun point all bets are off as to what I would do at that moment. If I am in fear for my life and feel that this hold up could go bad with him shooting me! the only thing I am pulling out is the equalizer! without hesitation. I for one want to go home in one piece. :) Good idea!
 

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I have one and have used one in a mugging. Money clip actually.

People do strange things under stress. I didn't hestite to give up my throw away money clip right away, but the other person with me was trying to get his ID out of his wallet before giving it up, he just didn't want his ID to be taken. The BG with the gun got pissed, and I began to worry it was going to get more violent. Luckily my friend finally turned over his stuff.

For those that say we should have just fought back (as everyone likes to MMQB :rolleyes: ), keep in mind this guy had the drop on us, and finger on the trigger. (knuckleheads don't know trigger discipline) So this guy was 5.5# of pressure on that Glock trigger from putting a bullet in one of us. The best thing to do was either end it by giving him something, or distracting him enough for a fight or a flight. The first option was better in those circumstances.

Different circumstance maybe I'd fight, but the throw adds another option, and is insurance against stress induced irrational behavior like my friend worrying about the ID.

Just my 2 cents. YMMV.
 

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Long, wordy, verbose response

When I was much younger and traveled in unfamiliar areas, I routinely carried "mugger's money" so that if I was robbed, 1) I wouldn't be robbed of everything that I had, and 2) I wouldn't anger the robber.

Nevertheless, I have learned, armed robbers sometimes stab or shoot their victims anyway because, and I am sure that there are other reasons, 1) they are angered by the unexpectedly small amount of money produced (I envision the crack-head yelling, "Is this all you got?"), or 2) to minimize any possiblilty of being identified. It happened to an unarmed friend of mine in St. Louis who was robbed, and after he handed over his money, the robber started running away, stopped, and turned to shoot my friend, but the weapon did not fire.

As a weapon-carrying professional, I do not want to shoot someone over a few bucks. However, I do not want to be stabbed or shot after being robbed. I no longer carry "muggers money," but I do carry a 1911 on my hip and a Kahr PM9 in my pocket, and if I were to give my wallet to a mugger, at the least, I would surely draw and track the fleeing mugger's path after a robbery in the event that the mugger decided to finish me off. Assuming that the mugger was not a child, where my emotions might influence my judgment, the more likely scenario, if the conditions were favorable, and knowing my disposition and my desire to survive, is that I would probably take my Kahr from my pocket rather than my wallet and fire. In previous times, when I caried a j-frame, I probably would have just started shooting through my coat, depending on the season and my attire. If the robber's gun was in my face, I would just throw my wallet to them because even if I fired, I would probably still be killed.

Others' tactical opinions may differ, but from a legal perspective, in my state, a person subject to an armed robbery or the reasonable belief of an armed robbery may assume that their life is in imminent risk of harm, and they may use deadly force to protect themselves and others. When a person's life is in imminent risk of harm, there are no legal problems to worry about, and the appropriate legal and defensive standard, despite distinctions in state laws, in my opinion, is "I must kill this person (or persons) before he/she/they kill or seriously hurt me, or another person to whom I have a right to protect." The standard is kill or be killed (a reasonable expectation that you will be killed or seriously hurt). This is the purpose of self-defense, Carrying a weapon is not a good luck charm, and a weapon holder is not less likely to be targeted for a robbery or other attack but should be in a better position to defend himself or herself. Carrying a weapon is not a hobby; it is for protection (and to preserve a free society; I knew I could throw a political comment in there somewhere).
 

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Discussion Starter #7
major caliber said:
What sort of feel good garbage is that? I guess the sort that used to let a few dirt bags take over a plane and it's 200 occupants.
Sorry, I won't take a fight risk when someone has the drop (i.e. gun pointed in my direction) on me. I would rather give up a few bucks (as much as I am ever carrying cash), than try and "drop the perp" and face legal problems (barring a reasonable fear of great bodily injury or death), or engauge in a struggle over weapon.

Please don't imply any "sort" to my or any others patriotism. I am simply discussing reasonable tactics.
 

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1911_Mitch said:
We had a recent incident at a Home Depot parking lot where a young man was robbed at gunpoint in the early evening hours. Fortunately he gave up his wallet and very little money and the hold-up guy was pissed and ran off. :rolleyes: No shots fired by either side, and that is a good thing.

If I were faced with this situation, delivering lead into some perp is not advisable except in rare dire situations that my local gonverment does not trust me to decide. :bawling:

From what I have read and been trained, it is advised ( by several self defense experts) to carry a "spare" throw-down wallet or cash in case you are mugged/held-up. This way you don't give up the "important" stuff.

I recently split the contents of my wallet into crucial and non-crucial cards and it is suprisingly even. Drivers license, big cash, debit and credit card(s) in a very simple bifold (the thinest two pocket design I could find) in my front pocket with Kershaw Leek knife clipped to pocket edge. Supermarket cards, business cards, membership cards, etc.. in the throw-down wallet in my back pocket. I put a few ones in there as a token and distraction as I would likely be nervous and shaking and "accidentaly" drop my wallet and run "like a firm breeze" :biglaugh: to get out of there. Plus this small cash can be used for small items when necessary.

Do you have a throw-down wallet or am I being paranoid? :rolleyes:
I don't think its paranoid, I think its STUPID!

Lets see you don't think being threatened with deadly force is justification to recipricate, and yet you want to play games with this person, people have been killed because they didn't have enough money. what if the guy saw you pay your dinner (insert any other payment made in public) bill and now knows your screwing with him.
you have failed at situational awareness, your facing a gun, shaking in your boots and you expect us to believe your going to remember which wallet to hand over?
Whats your life worth? IF your going to buy off your potential killer do you really think its wise to hagle over price? give him everything you can, if you live you can make more money, cancel the credit cards, and give a discription to the cops. but if he's pissed he may just shoot you for messing with him.
(disclaimer: I do not agree with the idea of paying off a mugger with anything but lead, but if you are going to try to buy them off I don't think its wise to try and short change them)
 

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LFN said:
I do not agree with the idea of paying off a mugger with anything but lead
LFN:

I agree wholeheartedly, unless the robber has a gun right in my face. I am not Segal, although I would like his 1911 collection. Regarding the lead, you know that lead has been shown to pose health risks to those who have been shot. Consequently, I carry Ranger RA45T or Bonded Golden Saber; the jacket minimizes lead exposure prior to expansion. :p
 

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the only reason anyone would give up their wallet is if confronted with the possibility of great bodily injury or death. And if confronted by this possibility the motivation of the guy is irrelevant. I don't care if he wants my wallet with only 20 bucks in it. He is threatening my life and I can either fight him or surrender and hope he doesn't kill me. The amount or importance of the property at stake is irrelevant to me. If its worth threatening my life to the BG for, then it ceases tobe about property. I am now engaged in actviely defending my life. Same deal with an intruder in a house. If a guy comes into my home, and presents any threat to my life at all, I can't even express how little I care what he came there for. But i'll be dictating how he leaves.
 

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I don't carry any cash, I carry a visa check card.

as soon as they're out of sight...its reported stolen :p


a guy try to mug me once, I was walking down the street (I knew the guy was a few steps behind me, because i'm paranoid like that) he grabbed my arm to turn me around, and found a 1911 pressed up against his chest and heard the click of the safety off.

I said, "Is my wallet really worth dieing over?"

he let go and ran, and was shortly apprehended...


I think typically I avoid that type of situation, due to the evil glare that I typically have on my face. Crack heads are less likley to rob someone giving them the evil eye, as opposed to someone looking away at the ground and avoiding eye contact.
 

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A money clip can be used as a throw down. It's purpose is to buy time to either run or draw. The BG wants money so getting him to focus on a money clip thrown at him can be a very good distraction. While he is focused on trying to catch it, he dosen't notice the sights aligning on his nose :biglaugh: I will use any means to gain an advantage, always pretending to give in to his demands until I see an opening to act.

Regards
Bill
 

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RV man said:
A money clip can be used as a throw down. It's purpose is to buy time to either run or draw. The BG wants money so getting him to focus on a money clip thrown at him can be a very good distraction. While he is focused on trying to catch it, he dosen't notice the sights aligning on his nose :biglaugh: I will use any means to gain an advantage, always pretending to give in to his demands until I see an opening to act.

Regards
Bill
THIS MAN "GETS IT"... Saying a throwdown wallet is ridiculous is like saying that an infantry squad deploying a smoke grenade is "cheating"... (Smart) People who travel to nasty places frequently do this, and keep in mind, in many of these places, you're not armed anyway. Fill it with a nice stack of worthless foreign currency and some of those fake credit cards you get in the mail- you don't have to have anything with your name on it since you're not sticking around while he goes through it anyway.
 

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ain't no givens and ain't no pat answers, and there does seem to be lots of varied advice on this one.

in the end you just do what you have to do at the moment (whatever that might be) to come out of it alive and get back home to your family and friends.

having had to take a life once before the reality is a whole lot different than any of us think it will be. just ask anyone who has been there, although they may not want to talk about it.

in the end each of us may face a choice of what action to take and then to live or not live with the consequences of that action. in our state taking a life is only "legally" justified by the sense of threat to one's own life, notice the "legally".......but in any given confrontation choices are usually made based upon what is happening at that moment in time, not the law(s) of the state.

the "what if's" and "i would's" can be numerous and also be very helpful to those who have not thought this through yet, but i firmly believe we all need to be situationally aware as best we can, which often deters something from ever happening in the first place and that is not a bad place to be. if something does happen the thinking/action aspect (unless 2nd nature from constant practice) usually goes down the tubes post haste and the survival at all and any cost aspect kicks in big time which may play out as submit or go on the offensive. either way you may stay alive or die on the spot.

my sense is that each of us will respond differently and each must hopefully decide upon some kind of plan that works for you (whether it works in the end or not, and may or may not get trashed) in the eventuality of this happening somewhere along the line.

my home was invaded once a long time back. they had a gun but i went on the offensive. they died. i have never been mugged so can't speak to that one. to this day i still keep a close eye on anything and everything going on around me as much as possible. and yes, i have thought thru what i would do in a mugging to try and remain among the living a little while longer and it has aspects and pieces of much of what has already been shared.

be safe, shoot well if the time comes as you or someone else may need it. :rock:
 

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Discussion Starter #15
LFN said:
I don't think its paranoid, I think its STUPID!

Lets see you don't think being threatened with deadly force is justification to recipricate, and yet you want to play games with this person, people have been killed because they didn't have enough money. what if the guy saw you pay your dinner (insert any other payment made in public) bill and now knows your screwing with him.

you have failed at situational awarenessQUOTE]


Situational awareness is great, and I try to stay in Condition Yellow as much as possible, but I am sure we have all slipped back into the white at some time. And these events have a tendency to happen when we least expect it.

Remember, I also said that my local government does not allow me to carry a gun, so I would rather not recipricate against a gun with a knife or hands. Nor do I think that every "mugging with a gun" requires reciprication with deadly force.

Also, I did not spell out all of the details in this "what if" scenario, nor is it necessary, I am merely soliciting for comments.
 

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A throw down wallet is a great way to distract someone that is robbing you and may just allow you that split second to get to cover and/or draw your concealed firearm to save your life.

I have a well stocked throw down wallet. It has a bunch of those fake credit cards that come in the mail from American Express, Discover and such. I only use the ones that look very realistic and have what appears to be a real number and name on them. It is real easy to make realistic looking other forms of ID's or whatever on your computer and print them on heavier cardstock, even laminate them, to make your throw down wallet as realistic as possible. I only keep about $5 in cash in mine, with a few old lotto receipts and used scratch off lottery tickets. The plastic picture holders are a nice touch also, but I had a hard time finding pictures to keep in mine. I didn't want to have any of my own in there, so I just printed some that I found online of various kids and people.

I know others that have successfully faked asthma attacks, even keeled over and grabbed for a fake inhaler in an attempt to thwart would be robbers. I don't think there is anything wrong with using any tactic at your disposal to deter any unwanted situation that has the potential to cause serious injury or death.
 

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A throw down wallet or money is just a diversion. Whether you choose to use that diversion to run or fight is up to you. My personal throw down is a money clip with a 20 dollar bill folded over ten 1 dollar bills. It makes fairly thick wad that WILL attract the thug's attention. Don't just throw it at their feet. Act nervous (if you have to act), and toss it. When you toss it try to toss it so that it lands behind or a least to the side of them. If you succeed, they will have to take their eyes off you to locate it. That's when you do whatever it is you have decided to do.
 

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hrm. This is all more interesting then I originally thought. I am still however assuming that to take my property, in most circumstances, they will have to take my life. Thus making lethal force on my part justified.
I can see a "throw down" wallet for the purpose of giving it up and running away, or for the purpose of giving it up and hoping they don't kill you.
But if your plan is to fight back, I don't, at this moment, see the advantage, since a real wallet will work just as well for throwing it at them as distraction. Not that a throw down is bad or stupid, just to me it is superfluous.
I'm poor anyway, so I'm going to lose maybe 30 bucks a AAA and library card and some photos.
i carry my wallet strongside, so i maybe I can appear to be reaching for my wallet and produce my pistol.
One way or the other, unless it is a pick-pocket, nobody is getting my wallet without a fight. Because I gauruntee you I will be in fear for my life from their gun, their knife, their bludegon, or the bare hands with which they are willing to strangle the life out of me for my money.
Well, thats my plan anyway. For all i know I may cower and cry in fear and beg for mercy, but my pre-action plan is to fight. I've heard making a plan helps. I assume this is a believe widley held since the throw down wallet seems to be a prety popular plan.
 

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Let's get something straight.

We're not talking about killing over a few dollars. We're talking about killing over a WEAPON BEING POINTED AT YOU! Caps intended. I hope we can all understand the difference. Johnny next door is not tugging on your pant leg begging money for the ice cream truck. Some prick is sticking a knife/gun in your face demanding you hand over what you have spent time away from your family to get, the means to support them. This prick is threatening you with violence if you don't supply cash for his habit. This prick will probably try to kill you in less than a minute anyway, because most are repeat offenders and don't want witnesses to add to the rap sheet. This attitude of "don't fight back, you'll just make it worse" is what gets more women than ever raped and killed, our pacifist attitudes rub off on our kids who don't scream and fight like hell when someone does something to them or tries to grab them. We as a society and as individuals need to reasses our priorities and what's worth fighting for. If it's not, don't. If it is, fight hard. O.K., I'll get off my rant-horse for a while. But keep in mind, the cash isn't what it's about. It's about your safety, the safety of your family and everyone close to you. "Throwdown cash" seems more like an incentive than a deterrent. Sure, it might work once in a while, but I also know (knew, he's gone now) a man named Tom Reddit who, yes, boys and girls, killed a bear with a .38 revolver. It worked once, but Tom got a bigger gun after that.
 

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1911 guy said:
We're not talking about killing over a few dollars. We're talking about killing over a WEAPON BEING POINTED AT YOU! Caps intended. I hope we can all understand the difference. Johnny next door is not tugging on your pant leg begging money for the ice cream truck. Some prick is sticking a knife/gun in your face demanding you hand over what you have spent time away from your family to get, the means to support them. This prick is threatening you with violence if you don't supply cash for his habit. This prick will probably try to kill you in less than a minute anyway, because most are repeat offenders and don't want witnesses to add to the rap sheet. This attitude of "don't fight back, you'll just make it worse" is what gets more women than ever raped and killed, our pacifist attitudes rub off on our kids who don't scream and fight like hell when someone does something to them or tries to grab them. We as a society and as individuals need to reasses our priorities and what's worth fighting for. If it's not, don't. If it is, fight hard. O.K., I'll get off my rant-horse for a while. But keep in mind, the cash isn't what it's about. It's about your safety, the safety of your family and everyone close to you. "Throwdown cash" seems more like an incentive than a deterrent. Sure, it might work once in a while, but I also know (knew, he's gone now) a man named Tom Reddit who, yes, boys and girls, killed a bear with a .38 revolver. It worked once, but Tom got a bigger gun after that.
I do agree with most of what you are saying, but the "throw down wallet" for me anyway would serve as a distraction more than just giving the BG what he want's. I am in agreement that BG's do not want any witnesses due to the rap they already have or don't want and will just assume kill you to make sure. But if by chance the BG does get away with the "throw down wallet" and you do manage to get way with your life! atleast you haven't lost your main wallet and information. That's what I would use if for anyway! Leverage. :D
 
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