[shane45-1911]

How hard are you squeezing the trigger to lock it up like that?

How do you get the hammer to fall, once it has jammed?

Sounds like you have some sear/hammer/disconnector interference happening - but I don't think it sounds like a thumb safety problem ???

[This message has been edited by shane45-1911 (edited 05-22-2001).]

 

[Newton]

Did you do all this with the slide on? And if so, did the thumb safety fill the notch in the slide when in the "Safe" position? And was there any interference between the slide and safety when engaging the safety?
I am assuming that when you say "The hammer did not move when disengaging the safety" that you mean there was no uncommanded movement, but when you pulled the trigger, the hammer fell normally.

[This message has been edited by Newton (edited 05-22-2001).]

 

[CMC]

The safety needs to be fitted to the sear , It is not a drop in part !!!

From what you say it is contacting the sear on both the safety on and off positions , since you said the hammer will not fall when in the off safe position.

Put the original safety on and get a gunsmith to fit the new one if you desire.
This could be dangerous if not fitted correctly.

 

[10mmman]

I apologize; I was not clear in my description. The safety/trigger seems to be working perfectly. In fact, the safety seems to be functioning more crisply than my Kimber safety. Newton is correct, there was no uncommanded movement after I pulled the trigger hard with the safety on, then let go of the trigger and pressed the thumb safety down. When I pull the trigger with the safety off, the hammer falls normally, and with the same feel and weight as with the stock Kimber safety. Testing was done with the slide in place. There was no interference between the slide and safety when engaging the safety. The thumb safety did fill the notch in the slide when in the safe position. I had access to a batch of thumb safeties that I tried until I found one that worked. I am trying to replace an ambidextrous safety and use thin WC grips. I was wondering if there is another function test that I should perform on a normal feeling safety beyond “on safe, pull trigger hard, release trigger, off safe.”



[This message has been edited by 10mmman (edited 05-22-2001).]

 

[Newton]

Sounds like you're ready for a range test now. Best advice is 2 rounds only testing to make sure all is correct. Then 5 rounds only, then full test. Let us know how it works.

 

[James]

If the part works without fitting it, then it must be a drop in part.?!

Here are the tests I use

1. Remove thumb safety, remove plunger and spring, put safety back into gun without plunger and spring. Check to be sure that thumb safety goes all the way into the slide notch without excessive force. There should be slight friction at the end of engagement but not super tight fit. If fit is too tight, engagement surface needs additional filing.

2. Reassemble plunger and spring. Engage safety, firmly pull trigger, hammer must not fall.

3. After doing step 1, take finger off trigger, disengage thumb safety, hammer must not fall

4. Operate slide, engage safety, pull trigger firmly, take finger off trigger. Then pull hammer back as if to cock it (even though it is already cocked) and listen very carefully for click. This means that the safety does not fit snugly enough and has allowed the sear to be moved. The gun may pass test 3 and still fail this one.

5. Another way to check for slight sear movement is to engage the safety and after taking up slack, you can feel the sear movement while pulling the trigger.

I would say you covered 2 and 3. Give 4 or 5 (or both a try). 1 would probably be obvious but it wouldn't hurt to be sure.

 

[10mmman]

Originally posted by James P:
Here are the tests I use

1. Remove thumb safety, remove plunger and spring, put safety back into gun without plunger and spring. Check to be sure that thumb safety goes all the way into the slide notch without excessive force. There should be slight friction at the end of engagement but not super tight fit. If fit is too tight, engagement surface needs additional filing.

- Done- I do not feel the "slight friction at the end of engagement" but it does go all the way into the slide.

2. Reassemble plunger and spring. Engage safety, firmly pull trigger, hammer must not fall.

-Done- Passed

3. After doing step 1, take finger off trigger, disengage thumb safety, hammer must not fall

-Done- Passed

4. Operate slide, engage safety, pull trigger firmly, take finger off trigger. Then pull hammer back as if to cock it (even though it is already cocked) and listen very carefully for click. This means that the safety does not fit snugly enough and has allowed the sear to be moved. The gun may pass test 3 and still fail this one.

-Done- I did this many times, I can barely hear a click sometimes, and decern extreemly slight movement by the hammer most times. Is there a fix or is it overfitted? Is this a deal buster?

5. Another way to check for slight sear movement is to engage the safety and after taking up slack, you can feel the sear movement while pulling the trigger.

-Done- Passed (I was not able to feel the sear move via the trigger or by touching the hammer with my finger whatsoever.

Thank you both very much, that is what I needed to know. Unless I hear that my result on test #4 renders it unsafe, I plan to cautiously test fire this weekend. I will load 2s, then 5s first. I will post results (unless it goes full auto & flips 180' on me!)

 

[James]

It sounds as though it is reasonably safe but your comments about #4 have me confused. How/when do you notice hammer movement during this process? Are you saying that you can see the hammer move while you are pulling the trigger with the safety engaged? I assume that it is not when you are pulling the hammer back to hear the click as it would be assumed that the hamemr *hammer* is moving at that point in teh *the* test.

Also, since there is no friction upon full engagement of the safety (test 1) and since you notice no sear movement (or creep) when doing test 5 BUT hear the click during test 4, I would assume that your safety is slightly "overfitted". The fix is to peen the engagement area of the thumb safety with a hammer and punch until the "click" is eliminated on test 4.

It is hard to be COMPLETELY sure without testing it myself. The last Kimber I fixed with a similar problem had no friction on test 1, passed tests 2 and 3, had the click on test 4 and noticeable creep on test 5. All like yours but #5. Required a new safety as it couldn't be peened enough to make it work. It is hard to peen the MIM parts - metal is hardened more than other parts it seems.

I am not happy unless the gun passes all 5 tests perfectly.

*EDITS* I do this a LOT - is it a sign of dyslexia?

[This message has been edited by James P (edited 05-23-2001).]

 

[gyp_c]

###

[This message has been edited by gyp_c (edited 06-05-2001).]

 

[James]

Originally posted by gyp_c:
one...then 2...then 3...then 4...then 5... then 6...then 7...then 8...be safe then 1...then 2...etc...

If you have several mags, load them first as above...

Your point? Everybody is a comedian these days

 

[10mmman]

Originally posted by James P:

#4- How/when do you notice hammer movement during this process? Are you saying that you can see the hammer move while you are pulling the trigger with the safety engaged?

-No, the hammer does not move whatsoever when I pull the trigger with the safety engaged. I am just stating that I can just barely discern by feel the click as I start to move the hammer back. BTW, The click is quite faint, and as I have tested it, become less consistent, several times I have detected no click.

I would summarize the tests as follows:

No friction upon full engagement of the safety on test 1
Passed tests 2 and 3,
Has a faint and inconsistent click on test 4
No noticeable creep on test 5.

DYSLEXICS OF THE WORLD-UNTIE!

 

[James]

Sounds acceptable, shoot it.

 

[10mmman]

James P,

Thank you for your time. I will post an update next week.

 

[gyp_c]

[This message has been edited by gyp_c (edited 06-05-2001).]

 

[Newton]

gyp_c has a valid point. Anytime repairs or modifications are done to a semi-auto pistol, and it's time to test fire, never use a full mag. If it decides to go full auto, a full mag can be fatal for someone, including the shooter. If you decide to go single round for your first, and it works OK, it's still not proven safe for a full mag. A gradual progression to a full mag is the best, and safest way to go. Judging from 10mmman's posts, he understands the concerns thoroughly.
nuff said I guess.

PS: Never top load a chamber round. Very bad for the extractor.

------------------
Really interesting....Don't ya think??

 

[James]

Newton,

I don't think that was the original gist of Gyp_Cs post cuz I think he was breaking down the numbers on loading a magazine (or two) - BUT, NICE SAVE G

. Besides, once you function tested 8 rounds, you probably wouldn't go back to 1 again.

one or two 2 round magazines would probably be sufficient. This modification doesn't affect any parts that would cause the gun to go full auto.

 

[10mmman]

I ran 100 rd through it with no problem, engaged & disengaged the safety several times- also ran 200 rds of .22 through a conversion with out a problem. Many thanks James P & Newton. I will however shoot it a lot more before I carry it.

[This message has been edited by 10mmman (edited 06-04-2001).]

[This message has been edited by 10mmman (edited 06-05-2001).]

 

[gyp_c]

@

[This message has been edited by gyp_c (edited 06-05-2001).]

 

[shane45-1911]

Originally posted by gyp_c:
I don't know ANYONE here.

OK - now I'm hurt.

Your post is right on the money ! Well said.

[This message has been edited by shane45-1911 (edited 06-04-2001).]