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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
***WARNING: LONG POST***

Firearms are cool. Situational awareness, range training, tactical study, etc. are all cool. It's the "CDI factor". We are the kind of people who enjoy watching "Movies for guys who like movies". Which of us doesn't think it would be sweet to have the skills to shoot a bad guy off of a rooftop at a dead run with a hangun like the guys in "Clear and Present Danger"? :biglaugh: We all would like to be a little bit higher speed and lower drag. We think nothing of spending $1000 dollars on a quality pistol, hundreds of hours of range time, thousands of hours reading books on the subject and developing that warrior mindset. For some of us, in military and LE, we practice and improve because our job, and possibly our life, depends on it. For others, we practice because although we may be a Mk1 Mod0 civilian, we might be that one unlucky dude who ends up in a crappy situation some time in our life and we intend to be the victor, not the loser.

However, I think there is a crucial aspect of training that many of us are guilty of neglecting. When a bullet goes downrange and hits our target, or an incoming round hits us, there is going to be a result that we might have completely neglected to spend time or money preparing for. Trauma.

My own opinion is that anyone who chooses to carry a gun should train with that gun. They have a duty to. They should also train in first aid. The gun we carry is designed to wound and/ or kill. We carry it because we feel that our life (or others) might be in danger. Why then, don't we prepare for a very probable aftermath of using our gun (or having one used on us)?

I'll start with some of the levels of training available:
1) Basic first aid/ CPR-
Typically a one day class, varrying from 4 to 8 hours of training. Offered by both the Red Cross (one year certification) and the American Heart Association (two year certification). They cover very basic first aid principles as well as airway obstruction and of course cardiovascular pulmonary resuscitation and often defibrilation.

2) Medical First Responder/ Emergency Medical Responder-
Typically a 40 hour class that goes over splinting/ patient packaging, airway management, bleeding control, use of external oxygen, etc. This course is often provided by local Fire Departments, sometimes free of charge. CPR is a prerequisite.

3) Basic EMT (Emergency Medical Technician)-
A 110 hour course usually offered by Junior Colleges or Fire Departments. It is typically a 1 semester/ 6 unit course. It covers everything the First Responder course does, as well as basic anatomy and physiology. There are many levels and titles for EMT's. The most common are Basic, Intermediate, and Paramedic.

4) EMT-P (Paramedic)-
Typically 500+ hours of didactic instruction/ labs, 120 hours ER/ OR clinical, minimum 480 hours field internship. Covers Advanced Life Support, advanced A&P, pharmacology, Pediatric ALS, etc.

Beyond that are of course Physician's Assistants, RN's (arguably level with EMT-P, but designed for a different setting), and Physicians. Whatever level of training you decide fits your operational requirements, financial or time constraints, I'd strongly encourage every gun carrier to get some medical training. I realize that it's not as sexy, exciting or fun as firearms training. On the other hand, let's discuss usefullness...

The typical CCW carrier may (hopefully) go their entire life without ever needing to call upon their training and mindset and weapon skills. Maybe once if they are unlucky. The civilian LEO is only slightly more likely to need their gun skills. The average military folks are probably the most likely, and even that may depend greatly on their job, where they are assigned, etc.

However, what are the odds that you would put emergency medical training to use? I'd argue MUCH higher, whether you are an office worker, football coach, cop or soldier. Your own kid breaks a bone while playing in the tree out back. Your toddler chokes on a Halloween candy. Your grandmother goes down in the living room with a massive heart attack. You are driving along when you see a roll-over just ahead of you on the highway and no emergency personnel have arrived yet. The possibilities are endless, and none are farfetched. Crap happens. It happens to people around us or ourselves quite often. The peace of mind, and ability to make a difference when seconds count can be bought at a very low cost compared to the price of a new Les Baer or Caspian.

I can't count, with all my fingers and toes, the number of times I've been able to use my skills in medicine off-duty, and before professional help arrived, just over the past 15 years. I've carried firearms both on and off-duty for the last 8 years. During that 8 year period I have discharged my gun in anger zero (0) times (knocking on wood:biglaugh:). During that same 8 year period I've used medical skills and abilities countless times. And yet think of the amount of hours and money that has been spent on firearms training (paid for both by myself and my department) on weapon skills as opposed to medical skills.

I'll get off my soap-box now. I don't bring this topic up with any offense intended. Please don't take it the wrong way and I'm not here to judge anyone. I know we could all do better, myself included. I just wanted to pass along something valuable to think about. It could save you or a loved one or even a total stranger who will be forever greatfull to you. Next time you think about where to put your spare magazines, don't forget the Kerlix roll and the field dressing...:rock:

PS- sorry for the spelling/ grammar errors.
 

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Good post, very good post. Hopefully some of the guys here that do carry just for the cool factor will take this post and come to some realizations.
 

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Most excellent post!

Regards....
 

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Very good post. Being that I'm a Veteran and served in the infantry I was trained in battle field wound first aid. I never leave home w/o my CCW permit, EDC, spare mags, knife and cell phone. If I am in an encounter my first call is to the police the second to the paramedics. Then I will try to administer first aid, if they are still kicking, which I doubt they will be.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I appreciate the kind words gents. I know that nothing I'm saying is new or groundbreaking. Sometimes we all just need a reminder of areas we may have been neglecting.
 

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The last handgun training class I took spent a fair amount of time on 1st aid. Got some tips on what works as far as first aid devices. Got myself a good tourniquet that rides in the range bag now. Big 1st aid kit in the truck.
 

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I'm sure most people on this forum have a CCW to not just protect their own life, but to save the life of others as well. Having some sort of first responder training is just more ammo on your belt....which brings up a question I just thought of: You attempt to neutralize a threat and are justified in doing so, but a gut shot or a non-fatal shot does not end the life of your attacker. If another party can hold the attacker at bay with your weapon(spouse,friend, etc) and the perp is begging for help & witnesses are abound, what would be your next action? Let him/her bleed out, or render assistance.
 

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I'm sure most people on this forum have a CCW to not just protect their own life, but to save the life of others as well. Having some sort of first responder training is just more ammo on your belt....which brings up a question I just thought of: You attempt to neutralize a threat and are justified in doing so, but a gut shot or a non-fatal shot does not end the life of your attacker. If another party can hold the attacker at bay with your weapon(spouse,friend, etc) and the perp is begging for help & witnesses are abound, what would be your next action? Let him/her bleed out, or render assistance.
myself, im not shooting to wound(being honest not trying to sound like a bad ass), but if the shot does not kill the person and IF the weapon is away from the attacker I will render aide. If the weapon is still in his hand, i will give a verbal command to throw the weapon (while in cover) and then ill assist. of course since im rarely alone, ill have somebody cover me while I am.
 

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course I'm not shooting to BE wounded...but stuff happens right?

and if I did make that great shot and take the bad guy down.. I'm gonna assume that the 911 call will bring police /medic in mere seconds..otherwise why would we need a gun for personal defense anyway right?...so I'll just sit quietly and wait on the sirens..the bad guy will have to take his chances on how long those sirens take.

but to your point..and it's an excellent post btw...

I and the wife both have EMT training...she is a scuba instructor so she keeps her certs up to date and her medic kit includes things like O2 tank, etc..that most car kits won't have.
I got mine early on in college and did some hours in the ER and ambulance..but didn't make a career of it...my bugout bag has a "boo-boo" kit as well as my work truck..and it's stocked with more goodies than you'd find in a prebuilt walmart kit..but at that..it's certainly not a trauma kit.
I held a military kit in my hands last month and gave it lots of thought..but at almost $150... I choked and put it back down..yes.. I've spent more than that on ammo at one shopping stop and certainly more on the guns...and I do want one...but unemployed right now has changed my purchasing habits...and that's my only current excuse...past years.. I have no excuse.. I know better...anything more than a grazing wound and I'm in trouble.
and that would be if I actually had my medic kits close at hand...most street crime.. I might not even be close to that supply of medical..so it's back to shirt sleeves and pencils and belts to keep some of the blood in the body.
 

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Agree.........one very good post here. Because of an incident that took place yesterday afternoon (I came within a hairs breath of pulling and firing for the 1st time in many years) this was very much on my mind last night. Even dreamed about it. I had been grazed years back the last time the SHTF and a lot came back to mind after yesterdays incident.

Good luck and good shooting to you. :rock:
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Agree.........one very good post here. Because of an incident that took place yesterday afternoon (I came within a hairs breath of pulling and firing for the 1st time in many years) this was very much on my mind last night. Even dreamed about it. I had been grazed years back the last time the SHTF and a lot came back to mind after yesterdays incident.

Good luck and good shooting to you. :rock:
I'm glad you're still with us Mitrod! That's the important thing. If this thread helps as a reminder to even a few then it has served it's purpose.
 

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BoulderTroll,

I agree a great post. People dont think about Trauma as much as they should. Trauma can be physical but it can also be mental. If you are the unlucky one that has to draw and fire, regardless if your shot is fatal or not there will be mental trauma you have to deal with.

As far as the bad guy, keep in mind that even in the Military, after the battle is done we treat and render aid to the enemy (Although they never seem to return the favor). That's just part of the American nature. I am not saying I would or could treat the enemy/badguy but I would like to think in my mind that I would at least try.

Thanks again for a great post. I like the ones that make you go "hmmmmmmm".

:)
 

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Good post!

I (and any normal human being) has a duty to act to provide assistance (when one can SAFELY do so) to one who is injured...no matter what their criminal action (notice I said criminal...dealing with Terrorists is different and we will likely see that here in short order. In that case we're taught to run up and adminester the "Coup de Grace".)

If a criminal...do your civic duty!
 

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I use first responder training at least once a month. I use my gun for self- defence, um, well, never, so far... I'm ok with that. I keep a one way mask for CPR in my truck, along with gloves, and I usually keep a pistol with or on my person. Gotta have the right tools.

Short version?

Airway
Breathing
Circulation

in that order.
 

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"ABC" for sure. Well-armed is SMART to have the one-way mask(mouth-to-mouth is always risky/nasty) and other tools of first aid. Lots of bodily secretions(blood,mucous,vomit) in the patient's airway could make it a very challenging task to say the least.

Not many travel around with an O2 tank;but,that is a vital tool also.

All the training in the world doesn't mean much if you have no tools to work with. In the case of GSWs a large bore IV catheter and bags of IV fluids might make the diff. in life or death.(after trying to quell bleeding and making sure the airway is clear,and/or some ventilation is ongoing).

Always airway/breathing first. Staring an intravenous line is not too difficult;but,takes some practice. Rubber gloves=good.

It's basic plumbing(sort of) after learning how to hold a clear airway on someone who is unconscious. That can take some practice. Plastic oral airways or rubber nasal airways make it a LOT easier and they don't take up much room/inexpensive too. O2 is ALWAYS good to have.

In a former life,I did this kinda stuff everyday(CRNA in Level-1 Burn&Trauma hospital) ;but,always in a very controlled environment. Out on the street with no real medical supplies can make even the most experienced trauma surgeon feel pretty helpless.

A few packages of that coagulation powder stuff(?) might be good to add to the trauma bag to help stop bleeding.

It depends on the situation whether or not I would render aid to the BG after he was no longer a threat. He would be the last one on my priority list to help.

A visit to your local EMT folks for info on what a reglar citizen can have for a trauma bag would be informative. I've been out of the trauma biz for about a decade. I'm sure there are lots of new things I don't know about.
 

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If you do not have a one way mask, or even know how to do CPR (no excuses, it is pretty easy to learn) go for the chest compressions alone at the rate of 100/minute. Current research indicates that compressions alone are effective and the oxygenated blood in the body can sustain life for some time.

Look up AED training on the internet or at the local red cross as well. Cpr can keep you going, but the shock is what brings you back. Easy to do as well. Find one on the wall/behind a desk (most public buildings, malls, etc have them now), open, and follow instructions. two pads go where the picture shows, push the button, and keep youor hands off. listen for further instructions.

Now, wheather you do this for the BG is up to you. But it is good to know how. You are more likely to need this than your gun, sheepdogs.
 

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Anybody know of a good EMT basic course that doesn't take a semester? (A more compressed schedule, perhaps a coupld weeks of daily classes...?)
 
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