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Do you guys that possess CCW permits/licences advocate trigger jobs on your carry pistols? If so, to what extent?
 

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The 1911 that I ccw has a trigger pull just a bit above 4.5lbs.

There are all kind of legal "what if's" we could get into. However, I don't think there is any need for concern as long as you don't have a "hair trigger". Realistically, I can't see the trigger pull being an issue unless there is reason to believe the shooting was accidential.
 

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Too light in a scary situation can make you the bad guy. On the other hand, I was forced for years to carry a double action revolver, then a Sig, with a trigger pull that took both hands. A nice, 4.5-5# single action trigger with a little take-up is perfect for me.
 

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I think the mantra, crisp, no take-up, but NOT light.

Making the trigger pull better than stock by taking out the take-up, the creep, and making it break well is not a problem.

I think where the contention lay/lies is when you make the trigger pull too light.
 

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I like a 4 lb trigger on my carry gun, but no lighter than 4 lbs.
 

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Mine is lighter than 4lbs but it's what I am used to and it's what I train and sometimes teach with. All of my guns except Glock 34 have a trigger job on them. My revolvers are modified only with Spegel grips but the triggers are very smooth w/ about 9lb DA pull but they broke in that way.

I don't recomend them but IF it's what you TRAIN with and can control it, there should be no problem. Defeating "hair triggers" in a courtroom is not too difficult if they are justified.

There was a shooting here abouts with a Baptist Minister in a church burglary gone loud and he had a Ruger .44 Mag with a very light SA pull and killed both un-armed assailants with it at close range. The 3lb. trigger issue was shot down in two questions. (The prosecutor, even though this is small town America, is a very saavy and experienced shark, who loves press cases and is totally anti-gun. He prosecuted the Jenny Jones ****-cide case years back.)

"Had you shot it before?"

"Yes, hundreds of times in practice."

"Have you ever modified this handgun or had it modified, in any way?"

"Except for the rubber grips, no modifications have ever been done to it. I bought it new from a local sporting goods store."

... Not guilty on all counts. Not at fault in civil suit that followed.

Many things could have gone wrong for him:

He shot one in the back
He had no flashlight
Both assailants were un-armed (they left their gun on a table in the church)
No warning..

BUT...

He was a pillar in the community and respected among his peers.

The two scumbags had jackets with over 20 hits combined from assault to child molestation to drug possesion.

High rate of burglaries and home invasions in the area due to transient population and meth labs.
 

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It's better to keep it factory. A civil suit is sure to follow the shooting, and you don't want to explain to the jury why you wanted a "hair trigger" for your itchy trigger finger.

Trigger jobs just make it too easy for the grieving widow's lawyer to conjure up images of you as someone who is anxious to kill. If he can show that you are anxious to kill, then it is easier to show that this was not a self-defense shooting.
 

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Keep your finger out of the trigger guard until the sights are aligned on the target and you decide to fire.

Follow the above, well known rule and it will not be an issue regardless of pull weight.

That said, both my carry guns break around 4#.
 

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It's better to keep it factory. A civil suit is sure to follow the shooting, and you don't want to explain to the jury why you wanted a "hair trigger" for your itchy trigger finger.

Trigger jobs just make it too easy for the grieving widow's lawyer to conjure up images of you as someone who is anxious to kill. If he can show that you are anxious to kill, then it is easier to show that this was not a self-defense shooting.
We are in one of the most rabid anti-gun states (upstate anyway) going now but flat out legally speaking even here a justified shoot is just that, regardless of any mods to the gun (legal mods that is). If you pass the "justified shoot" and you have a lawyer who knows what he is doing (the only way to go at the point of civil action) then your gun will not be the issue in the civil suit. The BG's actions will be the issue, again, if you have a lawyer who knows his stuff.

But....that is our state, can't speak for others.

If you don't pass the "justified shoot" aspect.......God help you.

Be safe, shoot well. :rock:
 

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Range guns......3 lbs.+, but not minus.

SD/HD.......4 to just under 5 lbs. Smooth and crisp.

Lots of practice with each on a very regular basis.

Be safe, shoot well. :rock:
 

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**I an not a lawyer**

However, in the bit of dabbling I do at keeping my ear to the ground, I've never seen or heard of a single case that trigger weight/modification came into play in the courtroom. If it's a good shoot, get a good lawyer for the civil suit to follow. If it's a bad shoot, there will be bigger things they'll pin on you than a trigger job.

Having said that, my carry gun has a 4 lb trigger done by a 'smith.
 

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I don't see the issue with a trigger job on a carry weapon. If you use the weapon I can practically guarantee a civil suit anyway. And unless it's some kind of negligent discharge, I can't see the problem. I look for a smooth and safe trigger.

I like minimal take up and over-travel and a crisp break, which help me to be a more accurate shooter thereby reducing the chance of inadvertently missing my attacker which could result in the injury of an innocent person. It is my responsibility to be as accurate as possible to reduce the possibility of endangering the general public. Therefore it would be negligent of me NOT to take every step possible to ensure maximum combat accuracy of my carry weapon up to the point where it negatively effects the weapons reliability. Or so I would say if by chance I were asked during testimony about the weight of the trigger pull of the weapon I had used to defend my life or the lives of my family. That being said I left my hammer hooks a little tall and my springs a little heavier. I was looking for about a 4# pull, but smoother like I said.

Besides, if you are practicing proper weapons handling and keeping your finger off of the trigger until you intend to fire your weapon, a lighter than factory trigger pull should not cause a ND. And in a deadly force scenario your adrenaline is liable to be pumping so hard that a couple of pounds of trigger pull aren't going to make the difference between you pulling the trigger or not.

Are there any cases where a person has actually had the trigger pull of a weapon they used to defend their life measured and then prosecuted because the pull was too light? What is too light? If you shoot'em with a double action weapon with a 12# pull is that O.K.? It's like the whole factory or personally loaded carry ammo thing. Has anyone been prosecuted because the loaded a Gold Dot into a once fired case? What about factory reloads? How is a deadly weapon too lethal? Thank God I live in SC, where if I had to defend myself or someone else I'd probably get a medal. :D

-Hershey
 

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Anything that will help you hit your intended target is good. But, even that can be taken too far. I've shot some competition pistols with 2# triggers with no take-up. I would not want that even on a competition gun. But, I see no reason to struggle with a mushy, 6# G.I. trigger pull, when you are shooting to save your life. All my 1911s have triggers that break between 3.5# and 4#, and I maintain intimate familiarity with the feel of those triggers. I wouldn't want a "competition gun" with a 2# trigger, and a "carry gun" with a 5# trigger, and try to remember which is which, so all my guns are set-up essentially the same.
 

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However, in the bit of dabbling I do at keeping my ear to the ground, I've never seen or heard of a single case that trigger weight/modification came into play in the courtroom. If it's a good shoot, get a good lawyer for the civil suit to follow. If it's a bad shoot, there will be bigger things they'll pin on you than a trigger job.

Having said that, my carry gun has a 4 lb trigger done by a 'smith.
Like you mention. Unless you live in a gun unfriendly state/jurisdiction (Remember though it is the decision of the prosecutor and his/her discretion on charging you in criminal court, something they might get a conviction on in a unfrindly gun state etc.) You probably have to worry more about trigger job/weight is in Civil Court. I personally wouldn't do anything to my carry weapon that I wouldn't be comfortable explaining in civil court. Because after a shooting even though "Billy" had a knife/gun and was robbing/whatever he was an angle and you should have known that.

Remember every one is for crime control until a reletive gets arrested/incarcerated. Then they become an activist for police/prison reform
 

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For me anyway I like a pull 4.5 +/- for carry. If it is alot higher it affects my accuracy and too low it becomes a risk (liability).
 

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I do advocate a trigger job ( if needed ) on 1911s . To me however i dont worry about weight of pull as much as i worry about crispness . 4 lbs is the conventional wisdom on minimum weight for self defense, and that is fine by me , but i dont really mind a 5 or even 7 lb trigger as long as its crisp . I did " break inn" on double action revolvers for defensive shooting tho so i may not find a " heavy " trigger the problem some do .
 

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Hitman, you don't mention what state you're in but some, like mine :) , don't allow civil suits if it's a good shoot. Check this:

776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.

(1) A person who uses force as permitted in 776.012, 776.013 or 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in 943.10, who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term "criminal prosecution" includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.

(2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force used was unlawful.

(3) The court shall award reasonable attorney's fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection (1).
 

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"Anything that will help you hit your intended target is good...I see no reason to struggle with a mushy, 6# G.I. trigger pull, when you are shooting to save your life. All my 1911s have triggers that break between 3.5# and 4#...?
And those are the only things that get top priority in answering this question.
My 1911s all have trigger pulls of 3.5-4lb. They don't go off by themselves, they don't double-fire, hammers don't follow, they're all reliable, and I obey Rule Three.

What's the trigger for? It's to permit and cause the gun to fire as accurately as possible, without pulling the sights off target, while of course remaining functionally safe.
I get tired of all the fainthearted queries about "whether you'll be in trouble" for sake of modifying your CCW/HD gun(s) in any way.

Figure out whatever gun and, if necessary, what modifications you need in order to shoot the most reliably and accurately under stress that you can, and whether it's stock or modified, practice with it.

If you're committed to the 1911 platform, accept that the gun as it comes from the box often needs some work.
Be capable of intelligently articulating why you chose the 1911 and why you modified whatever you did. Is that so difficult?
If you're afraid of doing that, get something else that you can shoot well that doesn't require any sort of modification!
The end.
 

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Anything that will help you hit your intended target is good. But, even that can be taken too far. I've shot some competition pistols with 2# triggers with no take-up. I would not want that even on a competition gun. But, I see no reason to struggle with a mushy, 6# G.I. trigger pull, when you are shooting to save your life. All my 1911s have triggers that break between 3.5# and 4#, and I maintain intimate familiarity with the feel of those triggers. I wouldn't want a "competition gun" with a 2# trigger, and a "carry gun" with a 5# trigger, and try to remember which is which, so all my guns are set-up essentially the same.
++1, word for word.

Not every pistol comes from the factory in the best condition for self-defense. IMHO, there are common sense mods that can make a pistol safer for you and safer for innocent bystanders, and a good trigger job (that is, one that isn't a hair trigger) is one of those mods. What if the factory trigger is too light, say 2-lbs.? Would bumping the trigger pull up to 4.5-lbs. increase your risk of liability? According to the "any mod is bad" logic, the answer is yes. Common sense says otherwise.

Now take the logic that ANY mod will make you more liable to a lawsuit and apply it to your skills. When you practice/train, you are modifying yourself. Are you safer to you, your family, and your neighbors by not "modifying" yourself to better understand when and how to use your pistol in self-defense?

There is a spectrum of mods, to both you and your pistol, to which one should apply common sense. Some mods could raise your liablity risk; some could lower it. Common sense will tell you which is which.

Your biggest risk is whether your decision to pull the trigger was justified or not. If your decision is justified, the opposing attorney has a very high obstacle to contend with. If your decision is not justified, you are in a world of hurt no matter what platform or mods you had.

My recommendation is use common sense to identify what mods, if any, will make you a safer shooter (safer in terms of defending yourself without endangering innocent bystanders), but invest the bulk of your concern in learning how to identify situations that require using deadly force. Improving your ability to identify such situations will help you avoid them in the first place, and the best place to be in a gunfight is someplace else.
 

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Some, most of the factory triggers IMO are absolutely terrible. "New York trigger" advocates are doing nothing but creating more danger for those people who are willing to put themselves in harms way on our behalf.
A good 3-5# trigger is a safe trigger. You do not want to guess when the gun will go bang. You want it to fire when you tell it to. Pulling on a long or heavy trigger causes the sight alignment to go somewhere else; potentially causing dangerous misses.
I highly recommend getting a good, crisp pull that works well for you.
If you use a revolver, make sure it is managagle and smooth on the DA mode and crisp and clean in SA mode.
 
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