[10ring]

I have a commander length 1911 which has a 4.5 lb trigger pull and two other 1911's with a 4 lb pull. Is there a simple adjustment which I can make to reduce the 4.5 lb pull to 4 lb? Like bending one of the sear spring fingers? I'd like to leave the mainspring alone so as to not affect the unlocking timing.

 

[shane45-1911]

Yes, you can SLIGHTLY bend back the left arm, and the centre arm.

First, I would mirror polish the sides of the trigger bow, and the series 80 levers (if yours is series 80) where they contact each other, and where the upper one contacts the plunger in the slide. I would also polish the bottom of the disconnector where it engages the back of the trigger bow, and where the centre sear spring leaf contacts.

Also, check the condition of your sear and hammer hooks. Make sure they are not scored/scratched/chipped, etc. If they are, a slight polish (without changing angles or removing metal) may help.

The combination of all these things may give you the 1/2 lb. you are looking for.

[This message has been edited by shane45-1911 (edited 07-31-2001).]

 

[malmon]

Originally posted by shane45-1911:
Yes, you can SLIGHTLY bend back the left arm, and the centre arm.

First, I would mirror polish the sides of the trigger bow, and the series 80 levers (if yours is series 80) where they contact each other, and where the upper one contacts the plunger in the slide. I would also polish the bottom of the disconnector where it engages the back of the trigger bow, and where the centre sear spring leaf contacts.
B]

Shane,

Do you have to use a dremel tool for the polishing part or can you just use ordinary sandpaper or something? If so, what grit/grade would be appropriate for a mirror polish?

Thanks.

 

[shane45-1911]

If you trust yourself enough to use a bit of the Dremel voodoo, then it will work fine. Use a felt wheel with a bit of jewellers rouge or other ultra-fine abrasive. Do not use much pressure, and make sure you do not change any angles. You are not trying to remove any metal or re-shape, simply polishing.

Remember, the little series 80 levers and disconnector will get hot when polishing, so don't hold them with your fingers. Also, do not put steady pressure on the parts - you don't want to heat them up to the point where the temper of the metal is affected!

If the Dremel scares you, you can use emery paper. I wouldn't use anything below 600 grit, and 800 or 1000 (if you can find it - try autobody repair supply stores) is even better.

 

[Dave Sample]

Piece of cake. You can do all of the things suggested or you can bend the CENTER leaf of the sear spring back a tiny bit and get your 1/2 lb that way. After you re-assemble the gun, pull the slide back and lock it with the slide stop. Drop the slid by using the stop and make sure the hammer doesn't follow (drop to 1/2 cock or worse. I NEVER BEND THE LEFT LEG OF THE SEAR SPRING.

 

[malmon]

Shane,

Thanks. Nah, I don't even have a dremel tool which is why I needed to know whether or not it was truly necessary for polishing work.

 

[gyp_c]

Originally posted by Dave Sample:I NEVER BEND THE LEFT LEG OF THE SEAR SPRING.[/B]

Why Dave?


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[TiroFijo]

I would do what Shane adviced, but would do it in small incremental steps (assembling, dry firing and checking for function, then real fire 50+ rounds) if this is the first time you do this adjustment. I would leave the left finger of the sear spring as is, at least initially, and use 1000 grit sandpaper for polishing.

 

[10ring]

Thanks for the tips guys! Since my take-up pressure was only about 1.25 to 1.5 lbs I left the middle finger pressure alone. I noticed that the grip safety pressure was pretty stout so I reduced that pressure some and did a small tweak on the left finger. Put it back together and 4 lb.! Got lucky on that one. By the way, everything inside was polished very nicely so I didn't try to improve upon that.

 

[TVD]

Good topic!
I adjusted my Stock P14 Limited's trigger from 5.750lbs to 2.875lbs by simply tweaking the middle (disconnector) leg of the sear spring back.

Some folks get very animated when I tell them this! They speak of Full-Auto fire and safety issues.

I have test fired this gun with perfect results. I have dropped the slide on an empty chamber 5 times now, NO problems with hammer follow.

The left leg of the sear spring is un-touched. This leg provides the force to keep the sear firmly against the hammer, right.

By reducing the force on the middle leg of the sear spring (disconnector)haven't I only reduced the force required to move the trigger rearwards as well as reduce the force of returning the trigger to its full foward position.

What safety concerns are important when ONLY adjusting the middle leg of the sear spring, if any?

 

[Hilton GZ]

Since you already met with success, this is moot, but I'll post it anyway.

Using medium and fine ceramic stones will yield nice, flat, polished surfaces. If you use the evil Dremel or are not using good technique with abrasive paper, you can round the wrong edges.

It appears that you have a trigger pull gauge. Use it to measure your disconnector/trigger return (center leg) pressure and your sear (left leg) pressure. Each leg should contribute about half the pressure. Assemble only the disconnector and trigger to gauge the center leg pressure - 32 oz/ 2 lbs. Add the sear later to get the left leg pressure plus the center leg pressure - total 64 oz/ 4 lbs. Jack Weigand wrote a great article on this, available on the Brownell's website. The info is applicable to trigger weights above 2.5 lbs, the topic of his article being trigger pulls below 2.5 lbs.

Most people get excited about bending the sear spring b/c screwups with the left leg lead to hammer follow. The screwups with the other two legs seem to be less apparent and slightly more foregiving.

[This message has been edited by Hilton GZ (edited 08-14-2001).]

 

[rex]

Hey guys,had time to stop in and visit.

10ring,glad everything fell into place for you.Your post hit me as a surprise from what I recall of your knowlege.Is it my memory or are you just second guessing yourself?(that's really nerveracking isn't it).

TVD,yes the left leg is the sear spring.The people that flip over what you've done have good reason.The center or disconnector spring does control trigger reset and to a point the trigger pull,but too little isn't good.You lost alot of poundage on that move,that's why it scares everyone.That is a rare fluke to happen without ending up way light on the disconnector.The main purpose of the middle leaf is to provide enough pressure to reset the disconnector-1 to 1 1/2 pounds is very acceptable.The remainder of your pull weight comes from the left leaf,hammer/sear engagement angles and depth,mainspring and everything being polished to glide smoothly.Too light on the middle leaf will cause probs-full auto(to a lesser degree) and unreliable disconnector reset.If you're new to trigger work,buy Kuhnhausen's manuals.They are a must to learn the workings and inter relationship of the trigger group,and the proper adjustment of them to be safe and reliable.The 5 empty chamber drops are a good sign,but not a total guarantee of a failure waiting to happen(at the worst possible time of course).Also,if this isn't a strictly target piece,run that pull weight up to at least high 3's.A nice 3.5lb trigger will break under stress when you didn't even think you had pressure on it.

 

[10ring]

Gee rex, thanks for the compliment. I didn't realize any of my babbling meant anything to anybody.

Yes, I have a confidence problem when it comes to triggers. I don't have a problem with polishing surfaces which rub against each other but I don't touch the sear surface for fear of really messing things up.

I was surprised at how little I had to move the sear leaf to drop the pull weight 1/2 lb. Sure works nice now.

 

[rex]

Any time

I'm sure you've heard it before,but Kuhnhausen's books are #1 on the subject.If you can get over $70-80 for a Wilson hammer jig,Wilson or Brown sear jig and $15 outside the frame pins,along with a cheap used gunshow hammer for the practice (the hooks will be way thin by the time you finish learning),it's really not hard,just tedious getting those angles right with minimal cutting and adjusting.The big trick is to use matched or original parts.Very minimal adjustment.I'm a gluttin' for punishment because I like Wilson's ultralite hammer,and I've yet to use one that has the proper hook angle to polish and drop in,but for some odd reason I enjoy it.Heinie isn't kidding when he says 5 hours for a proper job-setting up the angles is time consuming.But,I've also just cleaned up the factory stuff in less than an hour and had just as nice a job.It's not a job everyone will like to do,but I enjoy it.I hear the Ron Power jig is excelent because it has indexing clicks that will work for different makes (ie. 1911s,S&W,etc),but I've found that each gun is individual and needs slight tweaks to the angles.Boy was I surprised when the cheapest most primitive jig was the one that worked best for me.

Anyway,sorry about the rambling.Keep up the good work and shoot straight.I get my scooter out of the shop in a few days so I might dissapear again while I get it broke in and do some more work to it (think guns are bad,try playing with a Harley-"You spent how much on what?!")Take care.

 

[Jack Weigand]

Hey Guys,
I wrote an article, on 1911 action jobs, for Brownells and it was published in Benchtalk. I contacted Brownells this morning to see if it is on the web site. It is the method we have used in the shop for the past ten years with great success. Using this method you can get a reliable trigger pull from 1.5# to 8#. There are many ways to get to a great trigger, the method I show is only one of the ways, but it is a good starting point. I will get back when I get the URL to the article.
God Bless
Jack Weigand

 

[gyp_c]

http://www.brownells.com/benchtalk/04autumn1998/052.5%20lb%20Trigger%20Pull.asp


There ya' go Jack...

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[Jack Weigand]

I hope everyone finds this article of some interest. This is by no means the only way to do a trigger job on a 1911. If we asked 20 Pistolsmiths how they did action jobs we would get 20 different answers and that is cool. As long as you get the desired "consistent" results that is what counts.
God Bless
Jack Weigand

 

[10ring]

Thanks for all the excellent information guys! I might even get brave one of these upcoming winter days and try some of these procedures!