[44fred]

I took an advanced pistol course a few weeks ago and used my S&W PC bobtail that ran like a top for almost 600 rounds.
I engage my thumb safety before holstering out of habit. When stress was introduced into the drills, I was caught a couple times not engaging the safety...I learned something about myself. Never had an issue flipping off the safety during my draw...lucky I guess.
I understand my single action trigger at 4lbs, with very little pre travel is easier to set off than the striker fired pistols everyone else was using. That said, the instructors never called anybody else on not engaging their safeties before holstering (those that had 'em).
Speaking to a couple of the students during breaks revealed they didn't use their safeties at all. The next time it happened to me, I called the instructor on it. To be honest with you, I don't even remember his response. All I heard was bla, bla, bla. What is the difference??? I knew beforehand the instructors were very pro Glock so maybe having a 1911 in the class rubbed them the wrong way.
Since birth or even earlier, I've been taught to keep my finger off the trigger until ready to shoot.
BTW...every other student had on going problems with their pistols.

 

[MountieFan16]

Golden Rule: Finger off the trigger until on target. Use the safety.

 

[Denver1911]

I might suggest that, instead of "calling him on it," you simply and politely point out that he is being inconsistent and ask if he will explain. Then, when he does, listen instead of tuning him out and hearing "bla bla bla.". That and spending enough time with your gun under stress to build the muscle memory needed to re-engage the safety every time. And most of all, have fun!

 

[TucsonRick]

We were trained to engage the safety when the finger came off the trigger; nothing to do with holstering.

 

[wccountryboy]

I'd question the quality of any "instructor" that wasn't both:

- absolutely draconian about enforcing safety- and this IS a safety issue

- consistent in the enforcement of standards or rules, and in their training methodology as a whole.

It seems that shooting schools are popping up all over the place; there's no standard for "instructors", particularly for more advanced skills or techniques.... anyone can spend a couple years in the military or as a hobby cop, get an NRA cert and State CCW qual, and hang a shingle...

 

[Tim Burke]

It is a safety issue. Since you never reholster until you are sure you are done using the gun, it is perfectly reasonable to pause at the retention position, make sure that you are done engaging targets, make sure that your finger is out of the trigger guard and indexed, and make sure that the safety is engaged. Then you holster. In fact, Scotty Reitz teaches it just this way. I think that speed reholstering is a sign of not taking the training seriously. OTOH, when I see someone that consistently reholsters carefully with the above procedure, I think it is an indication that the shooter has been well trained.

 

[4Patriot]

Great exchange. Develop safe habits.

Question: I have a 3rd G S&W, Da/Sa, with a decocker safety. Analagous to what you described for the 1911, what should be the protocol for the S&W? Should I decock and holster, and then on draw release the safety to set up a possible DA first shot?

 

[44fred]

I guess my question should have been more forward.
Is a cocked and not locked, holstered 1911 as safe as a striker fired, external safety pistol in the same configuration? I'm thinking the 1911's grip safety makes it safer.

 

[AFshirt]

My school teaches to work the safety every time before holster isn't. Engage the safety then make a conscious effort to go around the foot instead of over it , weak hand out of the way and watch the gun go into the holster. It is amazing the number of people who forget to disengage the safety under pressure. Double action guns such as the beretta 92 must be decocked before holstering but those were made to be carried safety off hammer down.

 

[JK-linux]

I guess my question should have been more forward.
Is a cocked and not locked, holstered 1911 as safe as a striker fired, external safety pistol in the same configuration? I'm thinking the 1911's grip safety makes it safer.

My 2 cents... a firearm that isn't in the condition you believe it to be in isn't safe. If you are use to cocked and unlocked, or cocked and locked, no safety at all, whatever, it should be in the condition you train and anticipate it to be in. A pistol you holster cocked and locked that isn't holstered cocked and locked isn't safe, and it has nothing to do with the firing mechanism. That said, it's training and identifying things like this that need to be worked on is part of that.

 

[Bushrat]

Shouldn't happen

The draw and shooting should be fast. The act of holstering should be slow and deliberate. Keeping your finger off the trigger is fine, but loose clothing can get in the holster and catch on the trigger. Which will fire easier , a long striker fired pistol or our great 1911 triggers. Use your safety or change to a pistol that has none, don't make excuses.

 

[jjfitch]

Do as Tim says and you will be at one with all the instructors that I know!

"It is a safety issue. Since you never re-holster until you are sure you are done using the gun, (threat eliminated?) it is perfectly reasonable to pause at the retention position (scan your surroundings?), make sure that you are done engaging targets, make sure that your finger is out of the trigger guard and indexed, and make sure that the safety is engaged. Then you holster (re-load necessary?). In fact, Scotty Reitz teaches it just this way. I think that speed re-holstering is a sign of not taking the training seriously. OTOH, when I see someone that consistently re-holsters carefully with the above procedure, I think it is an indication that the shooter has been well trained."

__________________

They don't call it "1911 leg"!

If you aren't already aware Google: "Glock leg"! (This I have witnessed twice!)

All the best,

 

[Tim Burke]

Question: I have a 3rd G S&W, Da/Sa, with a decocker safety. Analagous to what you described for the 1911, what should be the protocol for the S&W? Should I decock and holster, and then on draw release the safety to set up a possible DA first shot?

My recommendation:
Return to retention. Pause. Make sure that you are done engaging targets & make sure that your finger is out of the trigger guard and indexed. Decock. Release safety. Then holster an uncocked weapon that is already set up to fire a DA first shot.

 

[Bigdaddymike]

I guess my question should have been more forward.
Is a cocked and not locked, holstered 1911 as safe as a striker fired, external safety pistol in the same configuration? I'm thinking the 1911's grip safety makes it safer.

No, No it is not

 

[dead eye]

It is a safety issue. Since you never reholster until you are sure you are done using the gun, it is perfectly reasonable to pause at the retention position, make sure that you are done engaging targets, make sure that your finger is out of the trigger guard and indexed, and make sure that the safety is engaged. Then you holster. In fact, xxxx xxxx teaches it just this way. I think that speed reholstering is a sign of not taking the training seriously. OTOH, when I see someone that consistently reholsters carefully with the above procedure, I think it is an indication that the shooter has been well trained.

IMO
Training has become too " class status " kind of thing. I was trained by Tex Grubner vs I was trained by Jeff Cooper.
The basics to advanced are the same except when some bozo has to interject "HIS SPECIAL TECHNIQUE " that make his students better.
As for the safety ....yes the thing is always put on when off the target, yes it is a lot of thumb twitching, yes that is why I carry a glock ...easier to deal with lets me concentrate on other issues that need dealt with such as ....scanning for other threats...ammo left in gun or reload time...audibles range commands or warnings......in other words anything.
Yes a slow safe holstering is a sign of being well trained . The flashy fast holster is stupid to the extreme.

 

[The Viking]

Pretty easy to be pro Glock the 1911 and the Glock are probably the most tortured tested pistols around. I shoot Glocks and 1911's a lot. Never had a problem with the thumb safety.
The other students that had problems with their pistols, if you remember, what were the problems and what were the pistols.

 

[dead eye]

Pretty easy to be pro Glock the 1911 and the Glock are probably the most tortured tested pistols around. I shoot Glocks and 1911's a lot. Never had a problem with the thumb safety.
The other students that had problems with their pistols, if you remember, what were the problems and what were the pistols.

Understand
Wasn't directed to you or anyone...just a general comment on the post content.

 

[44fred]

Post #14 is what I was looking for.
Thank you bigdaddymike.

 

[4Patriot]

Thank Tim Burke for your reply to my side question. Sorry OP for taking your thread on a slight detour.

 

[Mike_Fontenot]

As for the safety ....yes the thing is always put on when off the target ...

I think that might be a little excessive. If I was satisfied that the original target was no longer a threat, but thought that other dangerous targets might well be imminent, I would probably leave the safety off until I was convinced there were no more imminent threats. "Safety back on" would happen when I decided it was OK to relax a little ...certainly before setting the gun down, or reholstering. DA/SA guns aren't typically decocked between multiple target engagement, either.