drop it when clearing a class 3 malf. you have enouph for your hands to do and the mag or the ammo in it may well be the cause of your malf.
Type 3 malf - retain mag or drop?
During a type 3 malf. drill, how many prefer or teach to retain the seated mag. (once it has been removed of course) in the strong hand? This opposed to simply dropping it from the gun and recharging with a fresh one.
I'm curious because I don't see many discussions about this and I think it has enough merit for debate.
An advantage would be the obvious, you could use the rounds still in the magazine, which you may still need, and the mag is in hand, closer to insert and recharge with.
A disadvantage would be that the mag. is damaged and your feeding problem would continue.
So, do you grab and retain the seated magazine when you strip it from the well, and place it between your pinky and the grip, then work the action before re-inserting it? ...or do you strip it and let it fall to the ground, work the action and then recharge with a fresh one from your belt?
All of this or course, is after you've run like hell behind cover, or used some other alternative force if you're close enough for it!
EricO
I'm curious because I don't see many discussions about this and I think it has enough merit for debate.
An advantage would be the obvious, you could use the rounds still in the magazine, which you may still need, and the mag is in hand, closer to insert and recharge with.
A disadvantage would be that the mag. is damaged and your feeding problem would continue.
So, do you grab and retain the seated magazine when you strip it from the well, and place it between your pinky and the grip, then work the action before re-inserting it? ...or do you strip it and let it fall to the ground, work the action and then recharge with a fresh one from your belt?
All of this or course, is after you've run like hell behind cover, or used some other alternative force if you're close enough for it!
EricO
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Here is the way I was taught to clear a "brass low" or Type 3 malfunction at Front Sight:
- lock slide to rear
- strip magazine out violently
- rack, rack, rack (3 times total)
- reinsert a fresh mag
- rack slide
A Type 3 is generally a failure to extract, not a double feed, yet SAM3's reasoning is sound - to eliminate one of the possible causes & to get the gun functional ASAP.
- lock slide to rear
- strip magazine out violently
- rack, rack, rack (3 times total)
- reinsert a fresh mag
- rack slide
A Type 3 is generally a failure to extract, not a double feed, yet SAM3's reasoning is sound - to eliminate one of the possible causes & to get the gun functional ASAP.
I think that one ought to ditch the offending magazine. After all, IT may well have been the cause of the feedway stoppage. Ditching it also makes your very busy hands less encumbered.
If the problem has been solved by the time you clear the malfunction (attackers ran off, were put down by your partner, or whatever), then feel free to pick up the discarded mag.
Rosco
If the problem has been solved by the time you clear the malfunction (attackers ran off, were put down by your partner, or whatever), then feel free to pick up the discarded mag.
Rosco
Eric,
I have responded to your post "over there."
Shane.
I have responded to your post "over there."
Shane.
Chico,
Your explaination was very good but you forgot the first step, to LOOK!! You must first look to identify what type of malfunction you have. The symptom of a type 3, an incomplete trigger press, could be one of three malfunctions:
A type 2, look to see brass high
A type 3, look to see brass low
or a an emergency reload, no brass at all.
Good shooting,
Dean
Your explaination was very good but you forgot the first step, to LOOK!! You must first look to identify what type of malfunction you have. The symptom of a type 3, an incomplete trigger press, could be one of three malfunctions:
A type 2, look to see brass high
A type 3, look to see brass low
or a an emergency reload, no brass at all.
Good shooting,
Dean
Dean,
You are correct - look first. What do mean by "an emergency reload, no brass at all"? The first two as I remember are to be determined by keeping the pistol in the firing position (as opposed to bringing it down from your line of sight) and tilting the pistol to view/determine the nature of the malfunction. A Type 1 is a full trigger press that goes click, but not bang. That is cured by "tap and then rack-flip".
You are correct - look first. What do mean by "an emergency reload, no brass at all"? The first two as I remember are to be determined by keeping the pistol in the firing position (as opposed to bringing it down from your line of sight) and tilting the pistol to view/determine the nature of the malfunction. A Type 1 is a full trigger press that goes click, but not bang. That is cured by "tap and then rack-flip".
Chico,
An emergency reload will present with the same symptom as a type 2 or 3, an incomplete trigger press. Keeping the pistol high, tilt it twords you to "LOOK" to see which malfunction you have. If you look in and see no brass, either high in the ejection port(type 2) or low with multiple rounds competing for the same space(type 3), then you should see no brass at all indicating you have run your pistol dry and your slide is locked back on an empty mag. Hence time for an emergency reload to get back into and win the fight.
Good shooting,
Dean
An emergency reload will present with the same symptom as a type 2 or 3, an incomplete trigger press. Keeping the pistol high, tilt it twords you to "LOOK" to see which malfunction you have. If you look in and see no brass, either high in the ejection port(type 2) or low with multiple rounds competing for the same space(type 3), then you should see no brass at all indicating you have run your pistol dry and your slide is locked back on an empty mag. Hence time for an emergency reload to get back into and win the fight.
Good shooting,
Dean
Dean,
Aahh, yes. I knew it as a slide-lock reload. It happens less often to me these days than before, but it is still, "Why didn't it go bang? Oh..., I'm out of bullets." Last time it was a Texas-Star spinning five-steel USPSA target a couple months ago. Leaving two undropped, it was better to take the points instead of the added time.
BTW are you planning on attending the California IDPA State match on 6/2?
Aahh, yes. I knew it as a slide-lock reload. It happens less often to me these days than before, but it is still, "Why didn't it go bang? Oh..., I'm out of bullets." Last time it was a Texas-Star spinning five-steel USPSA target a couple months ago. Leaving two undropped, it was better to take the points instead of the added time.
BTW are you planning on attending the California IDPA State match on 6/2?
Chico,
Will be unable to attend that match as I will be taking a training class that weekend.
Good shooting,
Dean
Will be unable to attend that match as I will be taking a training class that weekend.
Good shooting,
Dean
1 - 10 of 10 Posts
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