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I examined this pistol very carefully at the Tulsa show, it has certainly been refinished. Very nicely however. But not in the correct dulite finish. I passed at a 7K asking price. The markings have even been finely scratched inside to make them look as though they were done after finish. Nice pistol, but refinished none the less.
Are we talking $7K or $700? I'm surely missing something here.
 

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The OP is being facetious about the price. I do not know the OP. Coincidentally, I had first right of refusal to this collection at the show. I was offered the pistol for $7,000. I determined with certainty it was an expertly refinished piece and moved on. But I've seen bad refinished guns selling for 5k or more, so it's really not all bad. Just not an original example.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 · (Edited)
I'm really having a hard telling who's joking here. Looks like a pretty high-condition US&S to me. I can't comment on the box though because I've never seen one before.
I am the one joking here. The story is fake but the gun is most likely original
I have not seen an US&S shipping box before either. May be other Forum members can give some insight.
Attached below are a couple of shots of the inside of the frame and slide. Notice the blue finish over the machined surface.


 

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It is indeed a genuine Union switch and signal pistol. And a fine, crisp example at that. With excellent machining and polish marks. Unfortunately for some reason, a presumed cosmetic issue, someone chemically stripped the duite finish and parkerized it. Hence the incorrect brown color not observed with the correct dulite finish. Once refinishing was done, the stamps were finished over, so someone took a pick and scratched inside the "P" proof marks to simulate burnishing. Interestingly, the RCD stamp was overlooked. A big red flag. Now, I didn't have my loupe on me, this was just my naked eyes in gunshow lighting. I'm sure a loupe would reveal more sins.
 

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What are those punch dots? Hardness testing? I never saw one that got punched so many times in one area.
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Also the edges below the last few serial number digits are softer than other area and appear lightly pitted below finish?
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It's not conclusive with those I saw from photos. But something I would examine.
 

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How is the feed ramp? And can you see any burnishing in the staking of the grip screw bushings? The latter is really hard to fake.
 

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not sure why anybody would do that
They would do it to simulate the stampings being done after refinishing. Please post as close of photos as you can of the P on the Slide. This one was the most prevalent in my eyes. As well as this pistol next to one or all of your other Dulite US&S pistols to compare color. Most edges also were softened to some extent during its refinishing. It just didn't pass my personal inspection in-hand. I do think the box is of the period and very well could be correct. Same with the mags. But the pistol has been enhanced. For what it's worth, market value of that pistol with original finish is probably $18,000 to $20,000. I would have pounced at the opportunity had it been original finish. There are likely only a few near NIB US&S pistols.
 

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What are those punch dots? Hardness testing? I never saw one that got punched so many times in one area.
View attachment 627061

Also the edges below the last few serial number digits are softer than other area and appear lightly pitted below finish?
View attachment 627062

It's not conclusive with those I saw from photos. But something I would examine.
Those dots could be staking. ?
 

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this was just my naked eyes in gunshow lighting.
You make an excellent point about lighting.
I've been to/at Tulsa a few times and, dependent upon where you were in the building and the time of day, proper lighting was a challenge.
Also, I think, cameras oftentimes don't see true colors. Attached is a photo of two authenticated Du-lite pistols. A Remington Rand Type I and a US&S in the 1080000 serial number range. Note the coloration. Both have picked up a slight greenish hue. Probably because of artificial lighting and the surrounding colors.
I've looked at a lot of 1911A1s and quite honestly, I attributed the greenish hue of the example pistol to lighting. Perhaps I was wrong and it is refinished.
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It just proves that pictures can be deceiving, and that nothing beats a hands-on inspection. Looking forward to close-ups of the P proofs and an answer to what the feed ramp and grip screw bushings look like.
 
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It just proves that pictures can be deceiving, and that nothing beats a hands-on inspection. Looking forward to close-ups of the P proofs and an answer to what the feed ramp and grip screw bushings look like.
I find myself very reluctant to buy any gun sight unseen, new, antique, or otherwise.
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
You make an excellent point about lighting.
I've been to/at Tulsa a few times and, dependent upon where you were in the building and the time of day, proper lighting was a challenge.
Also, I think, cameras oftentimes don't see true colors. Attached is a photo of two authenticated Du-lite pistols. A Remington Rand Type I and a US&S in the 1080000 serial number range. Note the coloration. Both have picked up a slight greenish hue. Probably because of artificial lighting and the surrounding colors.
I've looked at a lot of 1911A1s and quite honestly, I attributed the greenish hue of the example pistol to lighting. Perhaps I was wrong and it is refinished. View attachment 627163
the front portion of the slide looks a shade too dark, may be refinished.....:eek:
 
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