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Used to shooting 1911 45acp; suck with 10mm M&P.

2K views 51 replies 29 participants last post by  1977loadstar 
#1 ·
I recently purchased a 10mm Smith & Wesson M&P. It's a lot lighter than my 1911 but I like the 15+1 compacity. Even though all the guys at the range say it's a better system then my 1911, I suck with hitting targets well. I'll switch back to my 1911 and do better one handed than with the M&P. I know, practice until I'm better. Any suggestions? I'm probably going to be shooting a lot more pistols at the range since my State is in the process of banning everything else.
 
#3 ·
Do a lot of dry firing. Different guns require different techniques. Dry firing let’s you see what you are doing wrong quickly by watching the sights w/o the recoil involved. In the last year, I’ve put both a Hi Power and 92 in the line-up and dry fired each about 1,000 to 2,000 times before I live fired either. Made it much easier to be accurate w/them when I finally live fired. I’ve read many professional and shooters do about 80% of their practice dry firing; I’ve adopted that habit and it helps.

Also 10mm is a stout round so it may require substantial changes to your grip. I also shoot stout .357 loads sometimes, in the ball-park of most 10mm loads. Requires a different mental and physical approach. Also the DA/SA transition is in itself something to master; best learned dry-firing.
 
#16 ·
The 1911 trigger is of course better IMO. I can't think of a trigger pull I like more than 1911 in my personal opinion. The M&P has a trigger with an additional little plastic do-dad that pokes out of the other trigger. Hard to explain. It's for safety I believe and it's probably a work or engineering genius but it's taking some getting used to feeling that little guy pull and then the additional pull of the trigger that it's nested inside of, if that makes sense.
 
#10 ·
My first 10mm was a Delta Elite. First 3 shots offhand at 25 yards cloverleafed. It shot every type of ammo it was fed. The Lite loads (same ballistics as 40s&w) Standard, and HEAVY (Underwood and Buffalo). Almost same feel as 180gr 45acp +P. Honestly have a blast shooting the Delta Elite.
Nothing wrong with trading in to go to what you know.
Life's too short.
 
#15 · (Edited)
M&P triggers are a lot different.
To say the least.
I was out yesterday shooting my M&P 45 2.0 full size at maybe 50 feet. Much further than I usually shoot, but I still want to keep up some accuracy at some distance too.

M&P pistols have that long take up. Mine has a solid wall, almost no creep and then a clean break, but the long take up.

I pull it to the wall as I'm presenting it, aim and then finish the pull to fire when using the sights at some distance like that.

I got a few mags in and then pulled out the Tisas SS 45 Duty to compare. As I'm presenting it, the gun fires :D I was still dialed in for the M&P take up and this 1911 has maybe a millimeter (o two) of take up.

Both great guns, but boy are they different.
 
#12 ·
I don't shoot either of my M&P pistols (9mm and 40 S&W) as well a I do any of my 1911s. They're a slightly different animal, and I am willing to accept a (slightly) lower degree of accuracy with them. I'm fairly certain the majority of that is me more so than the weapon(s). I shoot them well enough for them to serve the purposes that I need them to serve, it is what it is.
 
#14 ·
MMM I just this past sun shot my kimber 10mm and my sa ronin 9mm.Now both are 1911s but I had no issue going from one to the other,the 10 just packed more punch,the 9 less recoil,guns weight felt similar to me.Granted if I had my sa xdm and either of those I know it might vary.I will try it this weekend for kicks and follow up.
 
#20 ·
I'm 99.99% sure the M&P 10mm (and 45) have the same grip angle as a 1911...
Try changing out the grip inserts to see if one gives better results than another. I find the largest grip that fits gives me the recoil management I prefer.

I've noted different grips panels and mainspring housing combos make a huge difference when I shoot 1911s.

I have a number of 1911s, including in 10mm, that I enjoy. I'm currently in the hunt for an M&P in 45 ACP, I'd really like that new one from the PC with 5.6" barrel.
 
#21 ·
1911s are condusive to accuracy, sorry to point out the obvious here but...they are also condusive to covering up fundamental problems because the triggers are so good.

OP, are you saying you suck in slow fire trying to shoot groups?

If it's slow fire then it's your trigger control and being 10mm I'm gonna say you are flinching assuming it's full power ish loads.
I know I can see a degrading ability at between 50-100 rounds in a 1911 10mm.... try it with the 40 S&W load levels.

I agree on the dry fire - but a 10mm in a light pistol is going to be a handful, it's going to take actual concentration to shoot well if you are not used to it.

Last but not least the Apex trigger kits for M&Ps are FANTASTIC and quite frankly rival a good 1911 trigger, or my sampling of 4 does.

Good luck.
 
#26 · (Edited)
1911s are condusive to accuracy, sorry to point out the obvious here but...they are also condusive to covering up fundamental problems because the triggers are so good.

OP, are you saying you suck in slow fire trying to shoot groups?

If it's slow fire then it's your trigger control and being 10mm I'm gonna say you are flinching assuming it's full power ish loads.
I know I can see a degrading ability at between 50-100 rounds in a 1911 10mm.... try it with the 40 S&W load levels.

I agree on the dry fire - but a 10mm in a light pistol is going to be a handful, it's going to take actual concentration to shoot well if you are not used to it.

Last but not least the Apex trigger kits for M&Ps are FANTASTIC and quite frankly rival a good 1911 trigger, or my sampling of 4 does.

Good luck.
Nah.

Shoot the same whether it's a Jennings, $8000 Jardine 1911, an old LeMat, Beretta 92 abandoned to the Taliban, or some high speed tricked out Glock something-or-another. Doesn't matter. Do the same, every time. This is how you master the handgun. I see the same in all handguns. Some details of the gun may be different, but shooting them is all the same.

Remember Mushashi's words:

"If you know the way broadly, you will see it in everything."
― Miyamoto Musashi,

The Book of Five Rings
 
#31 ·
Very good idea. Not yet. I've tried stabilizing it on an ammo box to help with vertical sway. I'll either need to sign up for a special class at my range or find someone near where I live with a lot of land that likes to shoot and pay them in ammo ha! My local range is pretty standard and I don't want to get in trouble with the range masters trying to improve my lack of skill. Sure wish I owned a few acres of land in the middle of nowhere where I could shoot freeze a bird. But don't we all?
 
#24 · (Edited)
FIX YOUR GRIP.

Seriously, fix your grip. The grip is the basis for success. The correct grip will not only be the basis for recoil mitigation, it will help negate problems with trigger pull and reduce front sight movement. Plus, all the girls will like you better, unless you're gay. Then the guys will like you better. I can't help you if you're trans; you're on your own as to which likes you better, but you can still improve your grip to shoot better.


Quick summary:

Tighten pinky finger(s)
Drive thumb forward to lock wrist
Verify wrist is locked as shown in video
Tighten elbow
Tighten shoulder
Push-Pull
Lift elbows (increases pinky pressure and top of hands squeeze the gun)
Lean forward -- nose over toes
Stand in athletic stance like you were taught in basketball/gym class

Works with one or two hands. You do the same with each hand, moving, standing still, kneeling, sitting, prone. Never changes; works with revolvers and semi-autos. Probably works upside down. Guaranteed to work in vacuum, but if you're shooting in space, you're in deep doo-doo.
 
#25 · (Edited)
The M&P is a fine weapon, but to me and probably most 1911 fans, the entire genre of striker-fired poly-pistols are just no fun. They almost feel disposable. They're boring! They have all the appeal of any of today's popular mid-class automotive transportation units. The comparatively long and spongy trigger pull does not lend itself to precision accuracy like a well-built, all-steel 1911. And to anyone who has long fired a properly tuned 1911 with crisp single-action trigger, the striker-fired guns trigger pull is a joke. Beats me how some people like that kind of trigger pull but can't appreciate a Colt Python or S&W K-38 Masterpiece trigger pull.
 
#28 ·
Here ya go.1st taget with my Springfield xdm 45 holds 13+1, 2nd target my Springfield Garrison 45.The difference to me is the fabulous plastic pistol clearly has some very different recoil(more) .The Real 1911 garrison subtle recoil to Me and Far more accurate hands down.Now i burned thru 5-6 mags on the xdm.I will say the lighter grain hp 185 sierra really smoothed out some of the pop on the xdm.The Garrison a walk in the park smooh.I used the same ammo on both
Armscor 230 fmj,federal syntech trsining match 230,winchester usa valor 230, snd federal range/target 230 fmj.Personalky once i adjusted with the xdm it went where i wanted it to go,the garrison no big deal and better balance with weight to reduce recoil and way more fun to shoot.I like the xdm 4 cap,and longer run between mags however the 1911 just a perfect pistol in comparison.Fun shooting today.
 
#47 · (Edited)
View attachment 682581 Here ya go.1st taget with my Springfield xdm 45 holds 13+1, 2nd target my Springfield Garrison 45.The difference to me is the fabulous plastic pistol clearly has some very different recoil(more) .The Real 1911 garrison subtle recoil to Me and Far more accurate hands down.Now i burned thru 5-6 mags on the xdm.I will say the lighter grain hp 185 sierra really smoothed out some of the pop on the xdm.The Garrison a walk in the park smooh.I used the same ammo on both
Armscor 230 fmj,federal syntech trsining match 230,winchester usa valor 230, snd federal range/target 230 fmj.Personalky once i adjusted with the xdm it went where i wanted it to go,the garrison no big deal and better balance with weight to reduce recoil and way more fun to shoot.I like the xdm 4 cap,and longer run between mags however the 1911 just a perfect pistol in comparison.Fun shooting today. View attachment 682580
Trending low and left. Fix your grip to resist movements caused by imperfections in trigger pull and other movements you are unconsciously making.

This means, in addition to what I showed before in the video, to concentrate on the following

Tighten pinkies
Tighten non trigger index finger
Roll elbows up to feel tension in pinkies and tighten hands on upper part of grip (near slide)
RESIST movement as you pull the trigger in proportion to errors you see in the sight picture
 
#35 ·
Oh there is also the possibility you got a screwed up gun that Smith needs to fix, I have a CZ P07 that is going to the range one more time before it goes back to CZ for accuracy issues. at 7yards I cant do better than 3" off a rest and at 50yards a friend and I were trying to shoot plates and he was laughing at me because I was hitting all over the place. I handed it too him and he quit laughing. Its got a problem...
 
#37 ·
As many have said, bench it to make sure the sights are on (they probably are) and dry fire. Dry fire a lot. Grab some snap caps, or a laser target system like ITarget Pro before you swap triggers. Much cheaper and will help you just as much or more than worrying about the gun’s hardware.

Learning how to shoot a “bad” trigger well will make you even better with your 1911 trigger since you’re going to need more solid fundamentals with the “bad” trigger and can transfer that to the 1911 trigger.
 
#38 ·
I picked up some 10mm snapcaps. I have 45 ACP snapcaps. Some people say I don't need them, others love them. Me personally, I like them. Plus it helps me get better at removing rounds and loading mags without using live ammo (I bought a bunch of snapcaps 🙂)

I went to the range and one of the range masters that's really nice to me help me make sure my 10mm M&P was sighed right. Welp, his grouping was so good that I quickly realized it is I who needs the help and not the firearm. I just asked him to check my firearm, so I'll still need to work on me. Thank you for advice!
 
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