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Discussion Starter #1
How many classifiers do you shoot each year? What proportion of your club's matches have a classifier?
The six clubs in our Section have a classifier at each and every match, plus Special Classifiers, so I shoot 40-50 a year. I assumed it was normal for clubs to have classifiers at every match, but I've noticed some shooters, doing very well in major competitions, with ten or fewer classifiers in the last twelve months; those shooters aren't shooting a lot of matches, or their clubs aren't running classifiers?
 

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Ok..I'll go first.

So far this year, I've shot 19 classifiers....I typically shoot two club matches a month.

Most all of the clubs that I shoot at include a classifier as a given.....it's very rare that a club DOESN'T include one.

I'd much rather shoot a club match with a classifier than one without one....I'd rather try to move up in classification...then sandbag in a lower one...and shooting classifiers is the only way that's going to happen (well technically there are other ways to move up)
 

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2 clubs I shoot at. The closest doesn't post to USPSA, the other does, so the number of real classifiers goes way down.

The other does do them twice a month, if I could make every shoot, most I could do would be 24 - howvever, I'm on pace to get 12 a year -
 

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We run two 2 or 3 gun matches a year and don't always have classifiers for them, but our regularly monthly match typically has a classifier. If we do run the multi-gun match without a classifier, the month either before or after the match is a special classifier match with 4 classifiers. So out of nine matches, at least five have one classifier and two of those have four classifiers. We're doing 12 to 13 a year.
 

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Our club shoots the maximum allowed unless we cancel because of weather. A club can shoot one classifier a month and two special classifiers per year. That makes the maximum number 18. I shot 28 classifiers in 2002 and it looks like I'll shoot 39 this year.

I know a Master (verge of GM) who hasn't shot in a club match or a classifier in over a year, but he practices a lot and shoots major matches. I also have a buddy who shoots in B class and probably manages 3 classifiers a year because he is isolated and practices instead of driving. Both of these guys are honest shooters and their classifications are accurate reflections of their ability.
 

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In some instances, the guys who do so well at a major match but only have a few classifiers on record are pulling the classifers from being sent to HQ in Sedro Wooley. They know the club's stat.'s person and have them not turn in the scores.

In other instances the shooter is far from local matches but practices a huge amount on their own in a very determined and disciplined fashion. Those who come from England and Japan to shoot big USPSA matches would be examples, they cannot even touch a real pistol until match week. Hand gun ownership is banned in their home countries.
 

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banjobart said:
In some instances, the guys who do so well at a major match but only have a few classifiers on record are pulling the classifers from being sent to HQ in Sedro Wooley. They know the club's stat.'s person and have them not turn in the scores.

Hah! I do the scores for two clubs and I refuse such requests on a regular basis. If you shoot it, it's going to USPSA HQ as per the current operating procedures. :D

The clubs here in Indiana always have a classifier at each monthly match. Along with the Kentucky section (some of their clubs are physically located in Indiana), we have several special classifier matches each year (two from the Kentucky section are scheduled for December).
 

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banjobart:

As a stats person, I can tell you that's one hell of an accusation. It makes me cringe. If USPSA could prove that a stats person was pulling high scores, both the shooter and the stats person would have their membership revoked. If you will give me some proof, I'll personally get on the horn today and make some SHTF.
 

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Almost all the clubs in Colorado run a classifier at every match. its always been this way. Tradition maybe.

I shoot two to three classifiers a month when I am in town and sometimes sneak in a super classifier.

Our three gun club doesent shoot more than a few classifiers a year.

Shooting a classifier and asking it not be turned in is a carry over from the old days (pre 1998) when you could X-out a scoresheet so it wouldnt go in. Now, if you shoot it, it goes in to Sedro. As it should.

A lot of the top dogs in the sport dont shoot many local matches. They just practice, a lot.
 

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It appears that some clubs are not sending the scores/activity fees to Sedro? Affiliated clubs? That's not good. The reason USPSA can allow non-members to shoot is because they get money from non-members in the form of activity fees (unlike IDPA, who gets the money up front in the form of membership fees).
 

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Actually, I never really cared about guys not wanting to send a score in if it is really low and will be flagged anyway. It's the idea of someone shooting scores that would move them up and wanting to sandbag that gets my blood boiling.
 

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rhino465 said:
Hah! I do the scores for two clubs and I refuse such requests on a regular basis. If you shoot it, it's going to USPSA HQ as per the current operating procedures. :D
As MD for my club I had similar requests and always refused. Now I will say that a two times as we were trying to finish the match there was a scoresheet missing and the shooter was gone so that there would be no way to ask him about it or do a reshoot. Aside from being (IMHO) dishonest to not submit your classifier, weather because too good or too bad, it is a great disservice to match staff to make them search for the missing scoresheet and competitor. And the entire match is held up waiting for the scores to be finalized.

I also had requests to reshoot classifiers so that the competitor could submit the best possible one. One of the most insistant competitors in this instance was a writer that submits articles to several magazines. I personally believe that this violates the spirit of the sport; your score is what you produce the first time you step to the line (except for unfortunate range equipment failure). Additionally, if you want to practice do it on your own time, don't consume the energy and time of the match staff by grand-bagging.
 

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I also believe that a shooter's classification should reflect their on-demand abilities, and not one-off runs, but when it's cold and rainy in Puyallup, a reshoot during a lull, with the bags off, isn't unreasonable, is it?
 

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Speaking of classifiers, what should be done if a shooter say racks up a large amount of procedurals from not understanding the course description? Take for instance shooting weak handed and accidentally shooting strong handed instead. That score will not be representitive of a shooter's ability.

Grandbagging doesn't seem like that bad of a thing in actual practice. So what if a shooter is a class or two higher than their actual ability, at least that shooter isn't going to be visiting the prize table anytime soon!

Josh
 

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1911newbie said:
Speaking of classifiers, what should be done if a shooter say racks up a large amount of procedurals from not understanding the course description? Take for instance shooting weak handed and accidentally shooting strong handed instead. That score will not be representitive of a shooter's ability.

Grandbagging doesn't seem like that bad of a thing in actual practice. So what if a shooter is a class or two higher than their actual ability, at least that shooter isn't going to be visiting the prize table anytime soon!

Josh
Regarding your first question, if a shooter racks up a pile of procedurals/penalties...chances are the run will be greater then 5% lower then their present classification (i.e. if the shooter is a B class shooter, 60%-75%, then anything less than 55%) and the run won't count.

Now regarding your question question about grandbagging....grandbagging in theory doesn't seem like such a bad thing because its only going to hurt the one who does it...especially when they shoot a large match....being a "paper" M/GM when the shooter is really a B/A will show up really quickly once the match is over. The negatives of grandbagging in my opinion is that it "dilutes" the actual talent pool of real pick-your-class shooters.
 

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RickB said:
I also believe that a shooter's classification should reflect their on-demand abilities, and not one-off runs, but when it's cold and rainy in Puyallup, a reshoot during a lull, with the bags off, isn't unreasonable, is it?
True, not unreasonable for the shooter that is involved in the sport and participates in matches. However, the people that were usually requesting a reshoot typically would shoot and scoot, leaving the staff and volunteers to tear down the stage after they got the score they wanted to send in. Shooters like yourself, Rick, are all too few (as I'm sure you have noticed); and you guys are exactly the ones that I would not mind helping out when you need it. But as soon as one (deserving) shooter gets the opportunity the whining starts. (I don't sound burned out, do I?)
 
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