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Discussion Starter #1
If it wasn't for the internet, I'm thinking the entire USPSA versus IDPA trash talking would be dead and buried.

Just got finished shooting a "combo" match with IDPA targets and scoring, but USPSA rules for cover and reloading.

The shooters were mainly IDPA types, but there was a sprinkling of USPSA shooters there too.

Lots of new shooters, so the rules and the differences they should expect to see if they shot either USPSA or IDPA matches in the future.

No bad mouthing of either sort took place, just a matter-of-fact discussion on what's different.

I noted that the vast majority of our local IDPA shooters aren't thrilled with IDPA reloading rules. Me either, but we all seem quite capable of just sucking it up and shooting by the rules anyway.

Have the same discussion on the internet, and all sorts of trash talking would have taken place:mad:

I had a great time even though it was wierd shooting IDPA targets after so long.
 

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Interesting. Back when IPSC thought it could get combat shooting in as a "demonstration" sport at the Olympics (silly boys) they were planning on using an IDPA type "time plus" scoring so spectators could tell what was going on without a computer.

I think you are right in general. The Net makes it easy to complain. I have been guilty myself. But I still go shooting.
 

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USPSA vs. IDPA

I primarily shoot Uspsa - B card- but shot a IDPA match here recently. You have very good shooters and sportsmen in both classes. No bad mouthing on either side. Good people tend to get along with everyone. No bad experince here enjoy shooting both.
 

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shoot both

I shoot both and Steel

But I will here some IDPA guys talk down USPSA and some USPSA talk down IDPA but I always tell them its shooting that is all that counts, If we were shooting water melons Id be here , that usually ends the conversation of whitch is best, to me they are all agood time and all good folks to be around.

I did have to laugh yesterday at a Steel Match one of the Master Shooters said IDPA stands for I Dont Practice Anymore
 

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Both are fun

Personally, before I understood all the differences this year, I started shooting IDPA. And, for me, IDPA has been a great place to be -- particularly for .45 Single Stack and Revolver. Its goal is try to use off-the-shelf equipment is great. But also, as an inexperienced practical shooter, at least in the NW, the competition is more focused on you and the target. The shooting problems that needed to be solved by the game are also challenging, but not overwhelming.

IPSC/USPSA, in contrast, is more "competitve" with each other, not just the course and equipment (based on my 1 1/7 matches I have shot). Now, I am not shooting the Open Division, nor do I plan too. But, for a single stack 45, IPSC/USPSA is not necessarily the best place to start. But, I just got a CZ75B, and Production, at least for me, seems to be a good starting place.

Now, the "Provisional" division for IPSC may change (or at least, I hope, challenge IDPA to become even better).

But Just like, to a certain extent, the Gun has to work for the shooter, so does the shooting sport have to work for the competitor. For me, IDPA has been a great place to start, and continues to be a great place for Single Stack 45's and my soon to be aquired S&W 625 for the ESR division.

But, IPSC with the CZ75B in Production is great place to staart; and now that I have a bit of expierence with IDPA, the more complex shooting problems to be solved by IPSC are not so overwhelming.

Anyway, to me, both organizations are great. And like so many things, you get out of them what you put into them as well. This should be one debate that ends in a clear draw.
 

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I run our small IDPA club here in Bigfork, MT. We had to fight tooth and nail in order to get it as they have shot USPSA for a number of years. The reasoning behind the apprehension - I've not a clue. I've yet to receive a definitive answer to that.

I shoot USPSA as well, but like to use the IDPA cover rules (which makes a few eyes roll). There's been a few ribbings as to my technique and I've been "talked to" by some higher class shooters who can't seem to understand why I do so. Do I expect to win matches by doing this? Nope, but I'm out there burnin' powder and that's all I really care about. I'd be lying if I said it's not somewhat difficult changing from my Limited gun (Para P16 Limited) to my IDPA gun (Sig 220), but I like the challenge. ;) My goal is to simply perform better than the last match. At this rate, I should get my B Card in about 3 years.:biglaugh:

One thing I've found interesting is that virtually all of our core IDPA shooters shoot USPSA and really enjoy it. I see perhaps 2-3 USPSA shooters that come to our IDPA matches. I rarely - if ever - see an A or Master class shooter show up.

I don't feel that IDPA is some sort of "training", just a different game with different rules. The tension between the two will most likely never go away, but if some folks could just take a couple steps back, relax, and realize that they are simply different, then perhaps they wouldn't be so prone to taking jabs at IDPA.

If you don't like it, don't shoot it.
 

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IDPA and IPSC

I've shot IPSC since 1978 and IDPA since 2001 (and indoor bullseye since 1984 and PPC since 1986).

I'm a police officer and I have always primarily competed with whatever my duty gun was at the time, which went from a S&W 15 revolver to a Colt Combat Commander to a Beretta 92FS to a Sig 226 to a Sig 226R-DAK. I shoot in "production" class in IPSC and "stock service pistol" class in IDPA.

I shot an IPSC match on Sunday morning. At the match I ran into a lot of the guys I've been shooting with for the last 25 years. I've noticed that a lot of the shooters who shoot both disciplines wear their IDPA hats to the IPSC match, and wear their IPSC/USPSA gear to the IDPA matches . . . now that USPSA has established multiple classes of weapon to compete in, I think the different groups are coming back together a little bit.

And of course it kind of depends about what you want to get out of the competition. If your orientation is toward competing with a firearm, you will probably start with IPSC and if your orientation is more toward defensive use, you'll start with IDPA and eventually you'll probably cross-over and do both.
 

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up here

IDPA has sort of just withered away........no more matches in Vermont, nor up-state NY, nor NH.

But we grew a new USPSA club :rock:
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Our local club has turned toward IDPA, and when I shut the USPSA match down due to poor attendance and no help, that killed USPSA here. Seems the newer group of USPSA shooters don't want to shoot matches on Sunday (our only option) and there are a bunch of matches to be found on Saturday.

Our original core group of IDPA shooters came from USPSA. The general excuse was "I'm getting too old for all that running and gunning". I can't fault anyone for feeling that way, so what the heck.

However, it was obvious that the slightly younger "core group" that's doing all the work in IDPA now really wants a higher round count and freedom to reload when and where they want. I can see USPSA starting back up at our club in the future. I doubt IDPA will be hurt, those guys/gals just like a change of pace here and there.

The "combo" match was a blast. It's been a while since I shot a match at the club, so there were new props to contend with, as well as some old favorites (some that I built).

One stage had you coming to the line with 8 rounds max loaded in the handgun. You had to shoot 8 clay pigeons (in holders I made up a couple of years ago for 3 gun matches) that were maybe 10 yards away or so. If you didn't clean the pigeons with the handgun, you then picked up a loaded (chamber clear) Mossberg 12 gauge to finish off the remaining pigeons. Lots of fun.

Another had you lying on your stomach on a "bed" with your empty gun beside you. An empty mag and whatever ammo you wanted to dump in a big margarine container was on a table next to you. 3 targets were semi-hidden in the woods in front of you. When the timer sounded it got pretty ugly because no one had ever practiced such a thing. Most were deemed "nuts" by me as they completed the entire cof on their stomachs. I rolled off that "bed" as quick as I could.

The only negative was I had 3 reshoots on one stage due to prop problems, and another reshoot because my score wasn't recorded on the clay pigeon stage. A personal lack of mental sharpness on the last stage cost me a top 3 overall finish.
 

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In the Dallas metro area, IDPA rules. You have to drive a couple hours to get to a USPSA match. So, IDPA is where I started, and still what I shoot most. I like shooting with a cover garment, and I like using cover. What I DON'T like about IDPA is the way the reload rules basically dictate that most stages will all get shot the exact same way by every competitor. Still, it's shooting, it's fun, I like the people, and I go in spite of some of the things that I find less than perfect. As was said before, we suck it up, play by the rules, and still have a great time.

But, I started shooting the USPSA matches also, in spite of the long drives. It was every bit as much fun as IDPA. The freedom to reload when and how you want gives you choices on how to approach the stage that you would not have had before. The higher round count and bigger distances covered make the fun last longer. And finally, since I very rarely get to live-fire practice during the week, the local matches I shoot are also my practice. At the USPSA matches, I find that I am better able to improve things like cadence and sight picture, because there are (usually) more targets in a given array. I haven't been to a ton of USPSA matches, but those I have attended have definitely improved my shooting skills, and it is immediately evident if I look at my IDPA scores from before and after I started shooting USPSA.

If the matches were closer, I'd probably split my time in half between the two disciplines, since both are a blast to me. I have little tolerance for those who bash one or the other without trying it first. And, although it's obvious the average person will prefer one or the other, I just can't understand a competitive shooter not liking each one, at least a little bit.

Art Lundwall
 

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I shoot IDPA and IPSC, one or both, almost every weekend. I shoot Limited 10 in USPSA/IPSC matches, and I don't see much freedom in when/where to reload; you essentially reload after every array. There are some CoFs that allow you to choose, but I don't get much of a thrill from making the choice. Reloading is something that has to be done, and doing it quickly is often more important than where/when.
The fact that IDPA was intended by the founders as correcting the faults of IPSC, including many references in the rule book as to how IDPA was going to do it differently and better, was bound to ruffle some feathers. IPSC shooters love their sport, and don't see any need to have it "fixed". IDPA shooters have probably chosen it over IPSC, so they are shooting the "better" sport, for them.
I'm involved in both sports, in administrative capacities, and try to get shooters to cross over, and I'm having more success, as time goes by.
 

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aclundwall said:
In the Dallas metro area, IDPA rules. You have to drive a couple hours to get to a USPSA match. Art Lundwall
Art..

I may be in the area later this fall..where are the IDPA and IPSC matches in the D/FW area..

thanks.
 

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In L10, you don't have the freedom you'd have in limited or open, true. with 18-20 rounds (in limited), it's a different story. That's not to say that MOST people don't wind up doing it very similarly. In IDPA, with my CDP gun, the stages are nearly scripted because of the rules about cover and reloads. It's only slightly different when I use my ESP gun. That's not meant to be a complaint, just an observation. I still enjoy doing it.

Heck, if I had MY way, every stage would be about 70 rounds! I'm there to SHOOT, man:)
 

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Discussion Starter #15
While I loved L-10, I've got to say the freedom of Limited with 20 - 21 round mags is refreshing! Nice to not have to reload after every array, but L-10 does highlight one's reloading skills. Those who can reload fast can gain ground on those who do not.

I've been reloading 1911s since I was 5, so anything that involves reloads is popular with me (or should I say "used to be").

IDPA is different, and when I shoot it I try my best to stay within their rules. Unfortunately certain types of stages put me in "auto-pilot" mode and I'll speedload at least once a match if I'm not REALLY careful. When I was our club's USPSA MD, I would always get a FTDR for this. Matter-of-fact, I was targeted for penalties at every stage, so I turned very negative towards IDPA.

Pretty stupid to blame IDPA for what a single club was doing. I think everyone has gotten over the whole "USPSA versus IDPA" thing at our club, so I'm kind of fired up over shooting the next IDPA match.
 

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eerw said:
Art..

I may be in the area later this fall..where are the IDPA and IPSC matches in the D/FW area..

thanks.
Which part of town are you going to be in? Collin County IDPA club puts on weekly IDPA matches at Collin County Gun Range (on Saturdays) and Backwoods TRAPS (on Sundays). Both ranges are in North Dallas area, about 30-40 miles north of downtown. Dallas IDPA club also put on matches regularly, but I'm not sure what their schedule is like. They usually shoot at Elm Fork - about 10-15 miles North-West of downtown, not too far from the DFW airport. There is also an IDPA club in Fort Worth area, but I don't know their schedule either. Feel free to PM me for directions or with any questions.
- Alex.
 

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eerw said:
Art..

I may be in the area later this fall..where are the IDPA and IPSC matches in the D/FW area..

thanks.
Our club (mine and Aleko's) is Collin County IDPA. www.ccidpa.com is the website, and I think everything is pretty up-to-date regarding our matches. We get about 25-30 shooters on Saturday, and usually about 20-25 on Sunday. We would love to have you shoot with us at either venue.

Dallas IDPA, as Aleko says, has matches that are a little closer to Dallas, but you'd have to check their site for details. I believe it's www.didpa.com.

if you have any questions, feel free to email or pm me.

Art
 

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aclundwall said:
Thanks Alex. Aren't you supposed to be at work? What are you doing surfing the net?
:eek: Work's boring... Talking guns is more fun. :)
 
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