[BillD]

Instead of hijacking someone elses thread, like I normally do I thought I would start this one.

Really not intending to start a flame war.

Explain to me how a shotgun that throws incredibly tight patterns of buckshot is better than a shotgun shooting slugs. You still have to aim very carefully and at some point, it quits becoming a scattergun.

Then, if you are shooting a shotgun socially and it throws incredibly tight patterns that you have to aim like a rifle, why not just use a rifle? Less recoil, more ammo on board, more precision.
I agree that the shotgun has devastating power but it comes with a price.

 

[NJKimberSS]

cuz with a fist sized or so clump, you are still covering more distance and creating more wound paths than you would with a slug...that being said i do like slugs, but to have a gun that shot a 8insh cluster of 000 buck at 10-15 yards would be great...take out the whole center of mass.

 

[BillD]

cuz with a fist sized or so clump, you are still covering more distance and creating more wound paths than you would with a slug...that being said i do like slugs, but to have a gun that shot a 8insh cluster of 000 buck at 10-15 yards would be great...take out the whole center of mass.

And if you have to take a 30 yd shot with that weapon, you have several pellets off the target. What do you do about that? Switch to a slug before you shoot?

 

[NJKimberSS]

And if you have to take a 30 yd shot with that weapon, you have several pellets off the target. What do you do about that? Switch to a slug before you shoot?

a) i cant legally defend myself past 10yards or so
b) if i needed to make a 30 yard shot id rather have a rifle
c) thats exacly why the first 3 in my shotty are 000 and the next 2 are slugs.

You have to rememeber 000 buckshot has 9mm pellets, so if you hit them with half, its still like getting shot 4-5 times with a 9mm, you have a higher probibility for hitting a vital organ...and 4-5 9mm holes are still better than 1 12ga hole IMO.

 

[BillD]

a) i cant legally defend myself past 10yards or so
Who says? What if someone is shooting at you at 30 yds?

b) if i needed to make a 30 yard shot id rather have a rifle

B]Then why not have a rifle instead of a shotgun? The rifle doesn't stop working inside 30 yds. [B/]

c) thats exacly why the first 3 in my shotty are 000 and the next 2 are slugs.

[I don't understand this, were you going to eject the first 3 rounds from your gun in this scenario?

You have to rememeber 000 buckshot has 9mm pellets, so if you hit them with half, its still like getting shot 4-5 times with a 9mm, you have a higher probibility for hitting a vital organ...and 4-5 9mm holes are still better than 1 12ga hole IMO.

I realize how many pellets are in the 000 buckshot. I am saying what about the pellets you are shooting that you KNOW are going to miss and travel a couple hundred yards past your target? Think you might get a little liability issue about that?
And you really think that 4 9mm holes are better than a .78 caliber 1 oz chunk of lead?

 

[NJKimberSS]

I realize how many pellets are in the 000 buckshot. I am saying what about the pellets you are shooting that you KNOW are going to miss and travel a couple hundred yards past your target? Think you might get a little liability issue about that?
And you really think that 4 9mm holes are better than a .78 caliber 1 oz chunk of lead?

i feel that if you are using buckshot at those ranges for SD that youve already decided its needed, and thats where the safty rules of firearms come in...know ur target and whats beyond...if you dont know whats beyond you dont take the shot...unless it will kill you otherwize then you shouldnt be worried about liability. I think that 4-5 9mm holes are better not because they nessesarily do more damage perse, but the surface area that will be bleeding is greater as is the probibility that you will hit a vital organ. With a slug you get a single chance...with buchshot you get several. Also i think this is all fine and dandy, except for one thing....for SD you shouldnt be using a shotgun (or any gun) at 30 yards,since you will be hardpressed to prove it was self defence. and if nessesary get yourself behind cover and slip a slug into the tube and rack the handle, and you have a loaded slug. but at more reasonable defence ranges (out to lets say 20 yards) most shotguns that are set up for SD can keep all but one or two of the pellets on a silouette, and a shotgun that hasbeen optimized can probibly keep them ALL on a silouette (out of 5 shots at 25 yards with the 590, maybe 3-5 pellets miss out of approx 45 or so pellets)


as for the under 10 yard rule...that used to be a state law in NJ...im not sure if it still is. They never procecuted anyone under it, but its still law.

 

[Ted Yost]

BillD, You're right on the money where "incredibly tight patterns" are concerned. It is certainly possible to be too tight, with all the drawbacks you mentioned. I favor a barrel that throws readily available loads into 8 to 10 inches at 25 yards. Ranges less than 25 yards are served well by the pattern, as well as those considerably beyond. I've missed poppers trying for too much speed with a too tight barrel - build in a little forgiveness, and I'm a lot happier