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Please site one case where hand loads were brought up and were the cause of someone involved in a sd defense shooting going to jail where he would have been let off if it weren’t for the handloads. I will wait…………







Hint: you wont find one. This myth that using handloads for a sd carry round is ridiculous. It has been repeated ad nauseam to the point that people believe it when their is no proof of it, in any case. Please stop repeating this myth.


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That is the point of my post #18. Having arrested many folks over many years and involved in many trials, I just have never seen a case where the ammo mattered. As I stated above, face and neck tattoos do matter. In fact, visible t on a female matter more than on a man. Just the way we see people.

It also matters what jurisdiction you are in. In California or New York or Massachusetts, an AK or AR might set off a prosecutor or grand jury or regular jury. Just imagine if you defended your home with an AR with this lower.

Air gun Trigger Revolver Gun barrel Gun accessory


I am not aware of a case where one of these showed up in a courtroom, however, I would not want to be the guy that used one in a questionable shooting. If you have them great, enjoy them. But when things go bump in the night grab the other one, the one that looks like what the police or military might carry. And if you end up on the stand, you can say that you simply kept the same gun at home for defense as the police officers who run the metal detector at the courthouse you are sitting in.

Same goes for any "normal" looking gun that one or more people on the jury might have at home. Maybe you used a double barrel shotgun, the one recommended by Joe Biden, I have a 12 gauge coach gun with exposed hammers, we call it Old Joe. Or if you used a lever action rifle, the famous gun of the old west and deer hunter everywhere. Or of course the 1911, older than anyone in the courtroom and pretty easy to explain why you would have a 100 year old gun design. You only need one person on the jury familiar with the gun type you use, that person can explain the function to everyone else. That is why the bizarre looking stuff might not be a good idea.

My 2 cents.
 

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Please site one case where hand loads were brought up and were the cause of someone involved in a sd defense shooting going to jail where he would have been let off if it weren’t for the handloads. I will wait…………







Hint: you wont find one. This myth that using handloads for a sd carry round is ridiculous. It has been repeated ad nauseam to the point that people believe it when their is no proof of it, in any case. Please stop repeating this myth.


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I don't need to have cases to refer to.

It's simply common sense.

An unjustified shoot will have you thrown under the jail....without a doubt....understandle.

A justified shoot....under the best of evidence...is still going to be picked apart.

If I wish to mitigate my exposure by running factory loads for carry....then so be it.

That is my opinion and I'll damn well state it. I'm not repeating a myth.


You handle your business and I'll handle mine.
 

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That is the point of my post #18. Having arrested many folks over many years and involved in many trials, I just have never seen a case where the ammo mattered. As I stated above, face and neck tattoos do matter. In fact, visible t on a female matter more than on a man. Just the way we see people.

It also matters what jurisdiction you are in. In California or New York or Massachusetts, an AK or AR might set off a prosecutor or grand jury or regular jury. Just imagine if you defended your home with an AR with this lower.

View attachment 623473

I am not aware of a case where one of these showed up in a courtroom, however, I would not want to be the guy that used one in a questionable shooting. If you have them great, enjoy them. But when things go bump in the night grab the other one, the one that looks like what the police or military might carry. And if you end up on the stand, you can say that you simply kept the same gun at home for defense as the police officers who run the metal detector at the courthouse you are sitting in.

Same goes for any "normal" looking gun that one or more people on the jury might have at home. Maybe you used a double barrel shotgun, the one recommended by Joe Biden, I have a 12 gauge coach gun with exposed hammers, we call it Old Joe. Or if you used a lever action rifle, the famous gun of the old west and deer hunter everywhere. Or of course the 1911, older than anyone in the courtroom and pretty easy to explain why you would have a 100 year old gun design. You only need one person on the jury familiar with the gun type you use, that person can explain the function to everyone else. That is why the bizarre looking stuff might not be a good idea.

My 2 cents.

I am in complete agreement with you.



My point was that I carry for self protection.

Assuming I live through a deadly assault then there may be overwhelming legal hurdles to endure before freedom is restored. Might as well control whatever variables I can. Running factory self defense ammo seems a small concession that may or may not matter.
 

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Hey all. These are out of a govt Wilson cqb. 230gr gold dots, over 7.1 n350, CCI lp, star line +p. The accuracy is acceptable, but should I try for a faster round? I’m not at the top of the load charge yet. I carry these for my sd rounds. Thanks.



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Only in the early days when I first got into reloading was velocity important. I tried to squeeze the last bit of velocity out of every round and wondered why my grouping was so poor. I have never found a max load the most accurate. I usually start in the middle of the loading scale, and work my way up to find what produces the best groups, and stop there.
 

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Assuming I live through a deadly assault then there may be overwhelming legal hurdles to endure before freedom is restored.
As evidenced by the Kyle RIttenhouse saga.

Please site one case where hand loads were brought up and were the cause of someone involved in a sd defense shooting going to jail where he would have been let off if it weren’t for the handloads. I will wait…………

Hint: you wont find one.
I used to preach that as well.... a good shoot is a good shoot, regardless of the gun or ammo used. However, in today's political climate I fear that is changing. The prosecutor in the Rittenhouse trial (as dishonest as he was) tried to make the ammo a consideration, and that was generic factory ammo. If you think he wouldn't have jumped onto hot hand loads, you are nuts. And like that trial, yours may not be argued as SD it may also be argued as vigilante activity. In the absence of crystal clear video, I sure don't want to take that chance.

It's not always legal or illegal that matters- it's often what a few jurors can be convinced is right or wrong.

Can you cite a trial case where handloads were used in SD and not questioned??? (honest question, not a trap) I haven't heard of any, which may be why the "it hasn't happened" argument is widely accepted.
 

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Yup. Once you set foot in a courtroom - there are NO RULES that limit what the prosecution can attempt to persuade a jury to view you as a stone cold psychopathic killer. In the Rittenhouse case that Judge was the only thing that saved Kyle. All of that said I personally carry ONLY handloads because the quality control of factory ammo is a complete joke. I have seen too many factory rounds with primers inserted backwards and no flash hole in the case. No thanks.
 
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