Vintage Mexican sterling silver and gold 1911 grips.

3360 Views 44 Replies 24 Participants Last post by cfwii1979, 4 mo ago

bayoned

Discussion Starter · 4 mo ago (Edited)

7

I recently found these grips fitted to an old Colt M1911, 1918 manufacture. I collect military, and have located an original correct set of truncated diamond wood grips to restore this gun to it's proper military configuration.

I have a couple of questions about these intriguing Mexican grips.
(The photos are not the best, and the lighting makes the gold parts look faded and thin. They are not. The lighting also makes the silver look thin and tarnished. They are perfect)

The look of the silver is that of sterling, not plate, (My wife collects vintage sterling), and the markings .925 as well as "Sterling" indicate this content as well.

The gold appears to be applied, not plated or a wash.

My questions:
-What do the two 18k and 10k carot marks on the back signify?
-When would these grips have been made?

Thanks for any assistance.

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ether

· #21 · 4 mo ago

Interesting grips. I wouldn't try to polish them. Clean yes...polish no.

Reactions: 1

trbnt

· #22 · 4 mo ago (Edited)

whig said:
Lots of interesting comments here. Nice grips. Should be tested for precious metal content. You can't "drop them in a graduated cylinder and get their density" to determine type of metal when there are a variety of metals on the grips. Doesn't work that way. And, again, light and oxygen do not tarnish silver. Sulphur in the air does.

If you plan to sell them, get the metals tested. It may be worth it and have it documented for the buyer! They are quite strikingly beautiful no matter what they are made of!

Yes it does “work that way”.

The alloy strikes are claimed to be silver and gold.
If the density is higher than the claimed silver it argues that there is validity to the silver/gold content.
If lower you know it’s largely plate.
The piece has strikes for "Sterling" 92.5 silver which has a density of 10.3 g/cm3.
Start there.

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Gray Dood

· #23 · 4 mo ago (Edited)

whig said:
No laws against that in Mexico and lots of gringos with extra money to spend!

Actually there are pretty strict laws in Mexico against mis-stamping silver and gold items. It's the reason purity is stamped with the makers mark, so as to allegedly eliminate fakes that cause harm to Mexico's precious metal and jewelry producers. Relatively rigidly enforced in the larger cities and higher end tourist areas.

Border towns are a different matter. It is Mexico after all.

Nice pair of grips imo. I'd love to acquire them. Thanks for sharing them.

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whig

· #24 · 4 mo ago

trbnt said:
Yes it does “work that way”.

The alloy strikes are claimed to be silver and gold.
If the density is higher than the claimed silver it argues that there is validity to the silver/gold content.
If lower you know it’s largely plate.
The piece has strikes for "Sterling" 92.5 silver which has a density of 10.3 g/cm3.
Start there.

Take 5 90% silver quarters and a clad quarter and throw them in water. Assume they all look the same and you can't tell any difference between them by looks or feel alone. Measure the density, however you would do that, and tell me with certainty which coin is not 90% silver without any other information. It doesn't work that way. The measurement averages over all items measured together, like in the grips. You would have to separate each type of metal and measure separately to tell what each is. I am an analytical chemist.

Take them to a jeweler. Easiest way. Or keep them and enjoy the beauty they possess!

Turbomunkey89

· #25 · 4 mo ago

All I can tell you is those are handsome pieces. I would love a pair, with a gold tooth to match.

Reactions: 3

trbnt

· #26 · 4 mo ago (Edited)

whig said:
I am an analytical chemist.

You are an analytical chemist who is in error.
In less time than it takes to talk about it the density of these can be determined at home with a simple gram scale and a bit of ingenuity.
That will tell you if these are plate, or nickel silver, or any of the other common doges.

captaint

· #27 · 4 mo ago

And here I was all set to hate your grips - before I saw them. While I have no training whatsoever in the metal business, they do look like the real deal to me. The reason for the 10K and 18K both, is that the 18K is softer and the 10K is harder and will wear better with use. Looks like quality work to me. Again, just my .02..... Careful polishing would be OK, but no buffing !! Very nice grips..

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USMM guy

· #28 · 4 mo ago

Take them down to Sinaloa and you could probably get a Kilo of Peruvian flake for them. But I would not want to be the one to make the negotiation for you.

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captaint

· #29 · 4 mo ago

Mmmmmmm - me too !

Jack19

· #30 · 4 mo ago

Gray Dood said:
"Actually there are pretty strict laws in Mexico against mis-stamping silver and gold items."

Mexico has drug laws too.

Reactions: 3

Victor's 1911

· #31 · 4 mo ago

You could give them to me ? I like !

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1saxman

· #32 · 4 mo ago

'Sterling silver (the .925 marking) is a copper alloy, with some other metals mixed in.'

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you just made a typo, but for anyone else reading this, Sterling silver is 92.5% pure silver and 7.5% pure copper. This results in a more durable metal than pure silver and it also has a very slightly 'coppery' color when compared to silver plate.
It appears to me that the grips consist of a fairly thick sheet of Sterling silver, formed into the needed shape and with a reinforcement soldered across the back. The front is hand-engraved. The gold work appears to be thinner sheet gold (but certainly not fragile gold leaf) that must have been soldered to the silver. Possibly two gold alloys were used, 10K and 18K - unknown why, but 10K is very durable, having a slightly more orange or copper color than 14K-18K. Maybe the center plate with 'El Toro' is 10K and the 'ferns' of 18K - just a guess.
Anyway, I'm inclined to think those grips have more value than the precious metals they are made of. Could you tell if there are any signs on the gun that the grips had been on it a long time? I'm sure there is a story there but I doubt we will ever know it. Nonetheless, if the 1918 pistol is good enough to warrant a good set of original grips, you could sell the silver ones to pay for them.

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Michael W Cuber

· #33 · 4 mo ago

There are some real craftsman in Mexico, and some incredible workmanship, like these grips, that pop up from time to time—I’d find a chromed .38 Super to go with them, and keep it in my collection as my South of the Border Model!

Reactions: 1

earlwb

· #34 · 4 mo ago

I think that the jewelers that buy and sell gold and silver have a tool now that can give one a indication of the gold content percentage etc. it might be useful to check them out about it. The tool doesn’t damage the item.

Victor's 1911

· #35 · 4 mo ago

XRF spectrometer

magazineman

· #36 · 4 mo ago

Like I said: Pawn Shop. Those guys deal with faked stones & metals all day long. But hey, I was wrong about Light causing tarnish, so what do I know?

Ingramite

· #37 · 4 mo ago

I hate to break the news but I bought Poncho Villa's silver 1911 grips a few years back.

The seller had them hidden in his van parked behind the Mexican fleamarket in San Antonio. The one on the south side.

Once I saw them I knew that the only way I was getting out alive was to buy them. Only twelve hundred bucks.
The ruby eyes in the cobra was a dead giveaway.

No, I can't post a picture for obvious reasons.

Reactions: 1

lonerider1013

· #38 · 4 mo ago

Very nice!

Chance-dg

· #39 · 4 mo ago (Edited)

Those a beautiful set of grips and I would love to have a set like these. The work and artistry look perfectly with the Jeremiah Watt hardware on my custom built Wade saddle and gear. Great Bar-B- Que set on a Super 38 as noted above. I have just the right build going for these.

Just from looking at your photos these are not "Fake" knockoffs. The hand tooling of the Oak Leaf and Scroll work set this pair back a few decades and have that look of old Western and Rodeo art. A belt buckle to match would be the bomb. Les Voit does some work like this.

Chance-dg

· #40 · 4 mo ago

I have "found" several shops in Mexico that will supposedly make a set with 5 or 6 silver coins. I wish I was more ambulatory now or was so into 1911s then when I was in Mexico. I would have used 6 or so half or whole dollar silver coins and had a set made at one of the out of the way shops I found while there. They work so inexpensively on Vaquaro gear, silver mounted Spade bits and spurs etc. I saw several sets of grips for Colt SA 45s supposedly solid silver untooled but wasn't flush enough to buy a pair with steer heads carved in, They were remarkedly affordable way way south of the border. $150.00 or so then early 2006 or so. I had the coins to use at home of course. And I feared some big time fit issues and quit dickering. I did get a pretty silver mounted spade bit while there for about 85.00 American, The port was a huge spoon with a chirping roller, I sold it in Montana for 450.00. The old Vaquero silver smith and gear maker, I found wandering around a tiny town 50 or so miles East of Porta Vallarta, he was outside building a saddle and got quite excited I knew about this stuff. His Grandson made a little tourist money swimming a beautiful jet black Paso Fino in the creek the next town over. His spurs were way to big roweled and fancy, more for showing off than using much. I went back to see him several times. Cool old gentleman. I would have to take the pistol to fit the grips and that of course is a big no no.

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