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Or carry a double stack 1911 and have the best of both worlds.....
Therefore ruining the slim, easy to hold tight grip, which is one of the benefits of the 1911. I have big hands, but still find double stack pistols cumbersome.

As a civilian, I am no longer tasked with taking bad guys into custody as I was when I was an LEO; my mission now is to force a break in contact. I am confident in my ability to make the first 8 rounds do so.
 

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I am confident in my ability to make the first 8 rounds do so.
This seems to be the problem w/ all those advocates for using guns that hold lots of itty, bitty, bullets. Apparently they don't understand that they can't miss fast enough to makeup for not using larger ones. It's that, or they harbor delusions of recreating John McClain's feat of retaking the Nakatomi Building from Hans Gruber.
 

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This seems to be the problem w/ all those advocates for using guns that hold lots of itty, bitty, bullets. Apparently they don't understand that they can't miss fast enough to makeup for not using larger ones. It's that, or they harbor delusions of recreating John McClain's feat of retaking the Nakatomi Building from Hans Gruber.
I hope you do not take offense but I disagree. Shots on target win gunfights. A miss is a miss no matter what caliber was fired.

Having been to probably more than a thousand autopsies and lots and lots of suicides and homicides, I have formed a personal opinion that any handgun, no matter the caliber, is like an insurance policy. Something you hope to never use but when needed you want the best money can buy ( I read that somewhere and did not make it up). I have never found anyone lying on the ground saying "they shot at me with a .45 so I thought I better quit what I was doing and lie down".

People that are shot with handguns have about a 90% survival rate if they make it to a trauma center.

Rifles are a different matter. There are large tears in flesh from the velocity that the temporary stretch cavity causes as the bullet passes. These large tearing wounds are caused by itty bitty .22 caliber bullets.

Having had personal experience on the two way shooting range I choose a rifle every time I think I am going to go in harms way. I never sat at home on my administrative leave after a shooting and thought "you know, my gun just held too many bullets".
 

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I hope you do not take offense but I disagree. Shots on target win gunfights. A miss is a miss no matter what caliber was fired.



Having been to probably more than a thousand autopsies and lots and lots of suicides and homicides, I have formed a personal opinion that any handgun, no matter the caliber, is like an insurance policy. Something you hope to never use but when needed you want the best money can buy ( I read that somewhere and did not make it up). I have never found anyone lying on the ground saying "they shot at me with a .45 so I thought I better quit what I was doing and lie down".



People that are shot with handguns have about a 90% survival rate if they make it to a trauma center.



Rifles are a different matter. There are large tears in flesh from the velocity that the temporary stretch cavity causes as the bullet passes. These large tearing wounds are caused by itty bitty .22 caliber bullets.



Having had personal experience on the two way shooting range I choose a rifle every time I think I am going to go in harms way. I never sat at home on my administrative leave after a shooting and thought "you know, my gun just held too many bullets".





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I hope you do not take offense but I disagree. Shots on target win gunfights. A miss is a miss no matter what caliber was fired.

Having been to probably more than a thousand autopsies and lots and lots of suicides and homicides, I have formed a personal opinion that any handgun, no matter the caliber, is like an insurance policy. Something you hope to never use but when needed you want the best money can buy ( I read that somewhere and did not make it up). I have never found anyone lying on the ground saying "they shot at me with a .45 so I thought I better quit what I was doing and lie down".

People that are shot with handguns have about a 90% survival rate if they make it to a trauma center.

Rifles are a different matter. There are large tears in flesh from the velocity that the temporary stretch cavity causes as the bullet passes. These large tearing wounds are caused by itty bitty .22 caliber bullets.

Having had personal experience on the two way shooting range I choose a rifle every time I think I am going to go in harms way. I never sat at home on my administrative leave after a shooting and thought "you know, my gun just held too many bullets".
Agree w/ everything you say. And this has to do w/ the topic, how?
 

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I would need hands like LeBron James has to do that. But, this Saturday, STI is bringing their guns into a LGS to allow people to fire them. I will try a double-stack, but that thing must be really heavy. :barf:
Para Ordnance and the STI double stack grips are actually a little shorter front to back and a little narrower than a traditional single stack 1911. It sounds like a magic trick, but when these double stack frames were being developed, they really concentrated on making them as slim as possible by leaving off anything that was not absolutely necessary. If I remember correctly, Chip McCormick designed the 2011 frame that STI uses. The grips are integral with the frame in order to reduce the width. The length of the 45 ACP cartridge dictated the size of the magazine so it didn't need to be any longer front to back than a single stack. The 2011 grip frame is also much lighter than a steel single stack so it makes up a lot for the added weight of the extra cartridges. Chip McCormick was a professional shooter so he knew that if the grip didn't fit the human hand, no serious shooter would go for it.
 

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I was unable to get to the STI Experience last week due to too many f-ing things going-on that day. I will try to get to that gun store tomorrow and take a look at the "P". I would really like to duty-carry a "P" Duo w/ a Leopold red dot, but only in .45 (provided my hands will accommodate it).
 

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I got to the dealer and tried an STI in .45. The gun fit my hands w/o a problem, so I ordered a P Duo today in God's Caliber. The expected wait is 3+ months. I will order another Ted Blocker leather holster for it along w/ a Leopold red dot sight.
 

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When I started, lots of the Rangers carried 1911s. Some of the older Sheriffs and Deputies carried 1911s. When I asked about the pistol, a lot of the guys said they carried the 1911 when they served in WW2. Nowadays, I think of the 1911 as a "gun guy" weapon. Someone who is willing to spend the money, do the maintenance to keep it running and practice and train to become very proficient with his chosen weapon.

Most officers aren't gun guys. They do fine with a Sig or Glock. The keep it simple principle may apply here. If a gun guy wants to carry a Glock, he will probably get really good with it also.

Having grown up on revolvers, a 1911 seemed like a machine gun compared to a 38 and dump pouches. In 45 years, the most rounds I ever fired in an engagement was 8. That happened twice. Most engagements were over with one shot. I have never worked for an agency that issued handguns. We always bought our own. I do carry two or three extra magazines on my gun belt. My issued AR has a 60 round Surefire magazine in it. I have known two deputies who ran out of ammo back when they carried revolvers. One was firing suppressive fire into a wrecked stolen car keeping multiple suspects pinned down. The other was firing suppressive fire into tall weeds and grass keeping an armed drug smugglers pinned down at the airport (small country airstrip. Backup got there in time and brought more ammo.
 

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I See That

When I was chief of my department, I made the policy that you could carry whatever as long as it was a major manufacturer and .38 or above. My logic was that you need to carry what you are comfortable with and can shoot well, as a hit with a .38 revolver beats a miss with a .45 or 9mm. We actually had one Gulf War vet who preferred to carry a S&W 65 and loaded it with 125 gr jhp. And he could shoot! We issue Glock .40 or .45's, but I have carried a 1911 in one form or another since the early 2000's. Just fits me better and I feel more confident with it. That being said, my back-up is a Glock 27 and I do carry 4 mags on the belt for my TRP.
And while it may just be cooincidental, I have noticed a quicker reaction to comply when I point my 1911 at them then when bad guys have a Glock pointed at them. But this may be as one guy put it, "When the man pointing a big gun at you is steady you'd better listen. If he's shaking he probably doesn't mean it". Just an observation....
Many years ago I proudly showed my brother Bob the cop my new Les Baer built hard chromed GM. (Long ago-Les was still working out of his house.)

He hefted it and said " Ahh yes...These get respect on the street."
 

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Capacity: Para addressed that 30 years ago. Para is gone now, but half a dozen companies sell double-stack 1911s today. Bul even made some in the same plastic Glock uses.

Caliber: 9x19, .40 S&W, or .45 ACP, just tick the right box when ordering.

Thumb safety: still a point of jihadi-level contention, but I note there's no 1911 equivalent of "Glock leg."

Reliability: Real Colt or licensed production vs. Sig or Glock, or some random parts-bin cheapo vs. a Pakistani-made Glockalike? Or are we talking about a "boutique" 1911 so tight it won't cycle when it's dirty, and even when clean is fussy about its ammo? The 1911's reliability was proven by the original Army acceptance tests; someone else's "interpretation" of the design a century later, who knows... Doesn't matter what type of gun it is or who made it, the reliability requirements should be in the purchase contract. Sig has been bitten *hard* by that a couple of times.
 

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The FBI Springfield 1911 is now off the issue list, but those SWAT or former SWAT who had them prior are grandfathered and can still carry them, for now. They were not allowed, at least since the 1950's, for the rank and file (a bit of elitism there, sad but true). The FBI used the 1911 platform some back in the '30s and '40s. At my old office we had a Colt 1911 in Super .38 in the vault still (before the nomenclature switch to .38 Super).

HRT has different rules.

HQ is trying to get rid of ALL .45 ACP (Glock 21, Springfield 1911) and .40 S&W (Glock 22, 23, 27) pistols and switch to 9mm (the Glock 19M, with personal purchase option for 17M and 26).
What are the different rules for HRT? Do you know what kind of guns they use?
 

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Started as a LEO in 1978. Back then we carried 6 in a revolver and 12 in a belt loop. I went to SWAT and thought I went to heaven. We carried 1911s...from that point on I always had a 45 somewhere on me...let's face it, for the most part , officer involved shooting are up close and a few rounds.. I never felt under gunned with a 45...my 2 cents thanks and be safe
 

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What are the different rules for HRT? Do you know what kind of guns they use?
It looks like they still use the SA Pro 1911 built for them.

I have the Les Baer entry for HRT, an SRP. Fantastic weapon that I got for a song as it is an older Hillsdale. It goes to work w/ me.

 
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SA Pro is still allowed for usage for Field Office Swat teams, by members that carried the weapon prior to the list change. The 45 is still in use with HRT.

Also, I've been on the job for over a decade now. Not a long time, but enough to see the wheels go round a few cycles. The entire time the 1911 has been present. The same conversation of, "Isn't it old?" was around when I started. It is an old design, it is a great design. It is a design that continues to work and get the job done for the military, law enforcement and civilian end users that choose it. It is not dead, it is not going anywhere and for the most part, it is more prevalent and in use today than it was when I entered the field.
 

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here's the thing folks.... A solid 95% of people in LEO today, have no business being a LEO. They do not have the mental fortitude for the job, much less operating a heavy old firearm with a manual safety and a light, crisp single action trigger. They require the guns made of plastic that require no skill or forethought to operate, and carry many, many rounds for their "spray and pray" style of gunfighting.

A 1911 or a 357 wheel gun... not for the timid or weak of character. But, in the hands of that 2% who are meant for the calling.... a far better choice than tactical tupperware.
 

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here's the thing folks.... A solid 95% of people in LEO today, have no business being a LEO. They do not have the mental fortitude for the job, much less operating a heavy old firearm with a manual safety and a light, crisp single action trigger. They require the guns made of plastic that require no skill or forethought to operate, and carry many, many rounds for their "spray and pray" style of gunfighting.

A 1911 or a 357 wheel gun... not for the timid or weak of character. But, in the hands of that 2% who are meant for the calling.... a far better choice than tactical tupperware.
So very true, well said brother!
 

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I am retired and working as an Armed Security Guard. I am going with a Browning Hi-Power cocked and locked for this uniform assignment.
601987
 
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