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Weird Serial Number

8K views 82 replies 26 participants last post by  dsk 
#1 ·
The slide has Remington Rand stamped on the left. A "P" near the rear sight. And absolutely nothing on the right side.
The frame has the a "P" by the slide release on the left side but missing the FJA under the slide stop. Then on the right, where I think the serial number should be it has this mark "R S 1100" or maybe it's "R S 110 0" you can see in the pic.
An old WWII vet gave me the gun some 30 years ago. Never gave it a thought. Pulled it out today, June 6th, and thought how cool I have this history. Thought maybe I could get more info from the serial number but looking through databases of 1911's on the net there is nothing close to " R S ANYTHING" that I could find.
Is that a real serial number ? Any thoughts on where I might look next ?
 

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#2 · (Edited)
Yes, I suggest that you field strip the pistol; closely examine each surface available stripped; take close-up photos of each marking, in soft lighting or using ‘torch’ mode flash with a smart camera (such as found in mid- / upper-tier smart-phones). Post the photos here so the m1911 historical experts can weigh in.

Here’s my effort at this:


... followed by the resulting advices.
 
#3 ·
Thank you tgt_USA. Attached more pics. Looking through threads it appears that without a serial number, this pistol would be illegal and I'm to dispose of it, perhaps give it to ATF. I want nothing to do with an illegal anything so if that's what I have to do I will but the "R S 100 0" on the right is clearly stamped. Always thought that was the serial number until I started looking for it on the net and realized it's not even close. Then again, that doesn't mean it's not a real serial number just different for some reason. I hope someone knows what it is, if it's legal, or can guide me further. I've no intention of selling it. My son joined the Army last week (shipped Memorial Day) and I'd hope he'd inherit this piece of history.
Hand Finger Gesture Gadget Input device
Hand Peripheral Computer keyboard Input device Gesture
Hand Finger Gadget Everyday carry Font
Netbook Input device Computer keyboard Gadget Bumper
Bumper Gas Automotive exterior Auto part Metal
Bumper Computer keyboard Space bar Automotive exterior Netbook
Computer keyboard Finger Input device Line Peripheral
 
#4 ·
I don't know anything about War model 1911s, but I do know something about serial number alteration. That serial number should have been machine stamped in a straight line.

What I am seeing is a hand-stamped "R", then a hand-stamped "S", then possibly a jig-stamped "110", then the final "0" was hand-stamped. Am guessing the true serial number has either been removed and replaced, or the frame was stolen from the factory and someone added a serial number.
 
#5 ·
Thank you Kevin. Yes, it's stamped strangely but if one is going to fake a serial number wouldn't you fake something along the lines of a real serial number ? Otherwise why stamp any serial number ? My guess is this is some sort of real serial number. Someone was tracking this but with a different serial number. But I don't know.
 
#20 · (Edited)
Thought I'd put together in case it helps. If it's illegal, it's illegal, I'll give to ATF. I'm out nothing but a memory of a kind old man ... and a cool old gun.
...
Thank you BBBBill. Interesting thought on Replacement Serial. Going to wait a few days for more responses then if still in doubt contact ATF to see if they have that serial number in their books. And if it's got to go, I'll keep everything but the frame.
Rather than contact the BATFE, whose answer you already know (destroy it), what I recommend is to call a legal advisor. As a member of U.S. Law Shield, I could just ask: have done on two similar-ish occasions.

Pending that, what 'BBBBill' wrote is essentially what I'd've written after having an aperitif. I've read of people getting licenses, S.O.T.s(?), to re-mil de-mil'd firearms. Some on spit-and-chewing-gum budgets. For that kind of operation, your serial number wouldn't surprise me. But I'm no kind of legal advisor. Your frame photos show very few marks compared to mine. I could imagine that as a result of welding up a de-mil'd frame and thoroughly polishing out the welds.
 
#7 ·
RS 1100 = Replacement Serial 1100? I don't believe that was not the approved ATF format, but stranger things have happened. Many 1911s were destroyed in the late 50s-60s time frame by cutting with a shear through the frame and slide. Some folks bought buckets full of them and quite a few were rebuilt by welding suitably sized parts together after cleanup. I've even seen a couple with the front half of the frame made from a casting welded onto the rear half. Pretty sure that I posted photos of one that sold on Gunbroker a couple or three years ago. Not saying that's what happened here, but there are many oddballs floating around. Worst case, strip the frame of all parts and keep that with the slide, barrel etc as they are worth money to someone. If it is bogus the ATF would only have to have the frame.
 
#12 ·
. . . if still in doubt contact ATF to see if they have that serial number in their books.
I strongly urge you not to do this. You need to find some bona fide 1911 historians who will know what this serial number is all about to assuage your fear. You have to ask yourself if every cop and agent in the country has been desperately searching for this one pistol every day for the past thirty years.
 
#10 ·
This comes up often. ATF has bigger fish to fry , and since you personally didn't alter/change the numbers , the chances of being charged or convicted are even less than the chance of being arrested under the proper statutes.
Was it registered with the law prior to your ownership or transferred thru an FFL? Receipt? BoS? If so , you have documentation that you received it like that , with those numbers and have no worry.
 
#11 ·
That is exactly how I feel Steve. I don't know where this pistol has been but as I understand it, Remington Rands were build between 1943 - 45. A time when heroes walked the Earth.
And when they returned they built the greatest things the world has ever seen. From Disney to computers and Apollo. I hold this and it's easy thinking of them.
 
#14 ·
@Steve ... Ah .... well ... OK ... I see what you mean. Thing is I myself didn't do anything with the gun ... ok but they wouldn't know that. Still surely they'd know one wouldn't do something insane with a gun then ask them about the serial number. Hopefully I can find a 1911 historian on here or someone knows one I can contact. I know they exist.
 
#15 ·
I believe the frame is a G.I. Maybe 'RS' is 'Re-Serialized'. Whatever, like the others above, I would not believe for one second that any authorities were interested in it for any reason. That number could very well have been done at some level of maintenance when the pistol was still in government custody. Bottom line, it's a gun. It has a serial number. End of story. If you are going to shoot it, change out the recoil spring and firing pin spring. All the other ones are usually 'forever' springs. Well, except the plunger tube spring assy, which being on the outside, tends to get ignored when lubing the gun and rusts out.
It's all been refinished including the barrel, so possibly it was then that they decided the serial number was gone so they just put one on it.
 
#17 ·
Thank you 1saxman. I definately leaning to that way of thinking. I too believe our nation's cops have must more important things on their docket. I am going to shoot it. I'm certain back when this was built, those craftsmen took pride, perhaps more care knowing where these were going. It deserves to be shot in memory of them and the badasses who carried them.
 
#19 ·
I'm certain back when this was built, those craftsmen took pride, perhaps more care knowing where these were going.
Not long ago I did a restoration of a WWII GI 1911 that upon his passing a Marine vet willed to his brother. What those pistols lacked in terms of fitting and appearance they made up for in reliability.

Before you shoot it do what 1saxman suggests and replace the recoil spring with either a 14lb or 16lb Wolff conventional spring. Wolff includes an extra power firing pin spring with each recoil spring so you don't need to buy one separately. They also sell plunger springs for $3.49 so you might as well replace the one that's in there now.

You might want to remove the mainspring (hammer spring) and inspect it for rust. If it shows rust, you'll want to scrub out the hole in the mainspring housing to be sure there's no rust left behind and replace the mainspring with a new Wolff 23 lb.

Make sure you don't skimp on the oil when you lube it.
 
#18 ·
You posted a bunch of closeups of the slide, that doesn't say anything about the frame. Look the frame over for any stamps or marks, that's what is important, the ATF doesn't care about the slide and all the other parts because you don't have to go thru an FFL to aquire those parts.

As far as the RS meaning Reserialize, as nice as that sounds that was not how the military or the ATF reserialized frames.

Sent from my SM-A716V using Tapatalk
 
#21 ·
Perhaps no business in this thread, but wasn't "R.S." the personal initials of an early inspector / reviewer of military m1911 pistols? This is not the inspection mark that I 1/2 remember ... but might be a serial number from a very small inspection run, i.e. prototypes. If so, destroying it would be a shame and a pity more than usual.
 
#32 ·
Perhaps no business in this thread, but wasn't "R.S." the personal initials of an early inspector / reviewer of military m1911 pistols? This is not the inspection mark that I 1/2 remember ... but might be a serial number from a very small inspection run, i.e. prototypes. If so, destroying it would be a shame and a pity more than usual.
Yes he was but he was the ordinance inspector for Colt, reserialization happens at the arsenal level and I've never seen anything showing he was an arsenal inspector.

Sent from my SM-A716V using Tapatalk
 
#22 ·
I'm not an expert, and I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn, but I thought guns made before 1968 were not required to have a serial number. If Remington Rand stopped making pistols in 1945, wouldn't that apply? Is this maybe a "lunchbox gun"?
 
#23 ·
Thank you again tgt_usa. I've no problem joining US Lawshield, have meant to for a long time, and asking them exactly that. And while I agree it unlikely this 1911 is a prototype, if it is some sort of history I'd rather donate it then destroy it. Wouldn't be in me to destroy it.
 
#25 ·
Plaidad, thank you for your reply. I wasn't expecting anyone to reply so every bit helps. I've heard of those 1911 lunchbox guns and that might explain why it's missing the FJA inspection under the slide stop. As I understand it, FJA only stamped after the serial number. While I've shot them for decades I'm only know learning about these magnificent pieces of history so any information is appreciated.
 
#26 ·
@Electricmo I'm not looking for monetary value. It's really only of value to me because of the old man who gave it to me. Sadly I don't remember his name which I suppose is what happened and continues happening to so many of that generation. So it could be $1 or a million. I'm not selling it. It's my small piece of history handed to me by a WWII warrior.
You know, I met people who knew Civil War soldiers. What a connection. Someday people will meet me and I'll be able to tell them I knew WWII vets ... and this is an example of a weapon they carried.
 
#27 ·
Not an expert - but a lot of frames were sold post WWII and mated to parts and surplus slides. the frame "appears" to not be a USGI frame - based on observable markings. The Number could mean anything but does not look like ANY USGI / prime contractor or "IRS" supplied number ( IRS was the agency priot to BATF responsible for SNs on MGs for amnesty etc) which leads me to think the frame was either an after market one mated to the slide ot create a USGI looking gun, or... That really says "IRS XXX" and the frame is correctly re-serialized by someone, some time for some purpose. Other frame markings, and some dimensions checks ( for thinned parts where markings of a GI frame may have been removed) could narrow things down . No way to really know either way, and since there is a serial on it, I would not get all worried that the jack booted thugs will kick the door in and shoot the dog. The "P" on the frame and some of the apparent wear would lend iteslf to making the case that the frame is an original and re-serialized for some reason. I vote for Eisenhower's personal 45..... o_O
 
#29 ·
This is why posting in the correct sub-forum is essential, because you'd get the right answer a lot sooner. The frame is a USGI unit, but the original markings were filed off (the P proof and a small part of the Ordnance mark is still visible) and a bogus serial number was applied. Technically that makes the frame illegal to possess, but as was said earlier the chances of someone making a big deal out of it are pretty small. However if you contact ATF I guarantee they will tell you to surrender the pistol, or at least the frame.
 
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