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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
If you say no way... I don't want to use blasers or reloads or whatever for self defense think about your supply on hand. Everyone stocking for Y2K or SHTF reasons talks about 1000 or 2000 rounds on hand. How many of you have 2000 rounds of hydra-shock or golden sabers ? anyone??? No you might have 20 or 50 or even 100 defense rounds on hand but you are sure going to need to go to your stash of target ammo soon if your worst case ever came to pass. Do you think you would be well served with your target / practice ammo? Remember that full metal was the military round and accounted for the great reputation of the 1911 for stopping folks dead. Over penetration would be a concern for me living in a suburban area, but I would load-up with federal american eagle ammo or even blaser 230 full metal and not worry about it at all. Do you feel the same way???????
 

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Nothing beats good old 230 grain GI ball loads. IMI makes it in 1200 round cases. There was an article I read in Special Weapons and Tactics for Law Enforcement saying that 230 grain ball loads beat out most other defensive loads, except for hydra-shoks and golden sabres. Hell, the military still uses it for most of their stuff. I think it's your best bet.

themao
 

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I use 230g FMJ, mainly because I have not bothered to function test my guns with a good defense round yet. Once I get my CCW (only 2 more months!!) I'll pick up a few hundred rounds of various types and see what works best. I'm leaning towards golden sabers or that new EFMJ round for my 1911. I do load my .357 revolver with some off-the-shelf hollow-points that I have never function tested, mainly because I know I will get at least 6 shots. Need to make sure the empties will extract easily though. LAter.
 

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Oh no you don't.......

You're not gonna get me sucked into the old FMJ vs. HP debate....

I am sooooo outta here......


Moving to "Ammo Can" forum...

[This message has been edited by shane45-1911 (edited 11-20-2001).]
 

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Your point is well taken about needing effective people-stopper ammo from target load. I can suggest this: get target load with lead round nose slugs and a thin carbide blade saw. If you cross cut the heads about 1/2 way down to the brass (three equally spaced cuts like slicing pizza) you will basically have fragmentation heads that will break apart on entry...
 

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for that bump in the night home defense scenario, i have mine loaded with hydra-shok,... but if that SHTF, well.. i'm going with whatever i have available which is most likely target ammo, FMJ.. YMMV.
 

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Here we go again........

I would have no qualms carrying ball, but if I had HP's on hand, I'd use them first. If your gun feeds HP's reliably, use 'em... if not, or you're not sure, use ball.
 

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These days I only ever carry hollowpoints in the chamber and the loaded (in the gun) magazine.

My carried magazine reloads are always loaded with hardball - and it wouldn't phase me a bit to carry hardball exclusively in .45 or 9mm for that matter.
 

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I don't know what your def of SHTF is, but, I wouldn't be so worried about handgun ammo. 7.62X39 is cheaper and performs better for crazy sit's. Anyways, what the hell kind of SHTF are you expecting? An invasion? I don't see that happening any time soon. Going to chase after suspicous pepole? Whatever, don't worry about that crap, one man with 1000 rounds won't do much. Your handgun won't be much in the way of defense if it is really serious. If its the bump in the night senario, 1000's of rounds isn't necessary. Rambo is just a fictional character.

[This message has been edited by BKC45ACP (edited 11-21-2001).]
 

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Well, based on my shooting ability, and themagazines I own, and the guns I own (1911 Loaded Stainless SA), I am sticking with 230FMJ. that is the magic for me and my set-up, and I do not care whether it is S&B or Blazer, I have shot 2,000 rds of each brand to convince me of combat accuracy and total feedreliability. I have SA, MecGar, GI, and TripleK 7rd ,mags, and they all work with 230gr hardball. I pay $8.50 per box roughly for the 230gr FMJ, and I can practice with all that for shot placement. I tested Hi-Shoks, Hydra-Shoks, Golden Sabre, El Dorado, and Speer Lawman HPs out of the SA1911. I cannot get any of them to go into battery reliably enough every single time the way I can with Hardball. I know all the arguments about sending it back and getting more throating and polishing, etc. However, I bought a combat gun, and I plan to test it thoroughly AS a stock-box gun. The HPs do feed and function in the SA1911, but not 100% into battery. I shot several bowling pins to test penetration, grouping, expansion, etc. I am happiest with the 230gr FMJ. THose H-Shoks, Golden Sabres, and Hydra-SHoks are good expanders when they hit at a flat 90 degree impact. They clump up into a hardball slug when impacting at an angle. So, I proved to myself that the $16 for 20 or 25 rds is not worth my budget stretch. Of course, when it comes to my GLock 30, 21, 4506, 4516, P220, they feed off the HPs. :)
 

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Hydrashok and Golden Saber are great for personal defense. What Quantico is asking about is for one of those end of the world scenarios. The military uses ball ammo, in part, because of the expense and in part due to agreements about not using hollowpoint type ammo. Plus, the military is not interested in killing the enemy as much as just wounding them and taking them and the aid workers out of the battle.

Part of the benefit of shooting .45 over something like 9 mm is that it comes "pre-expanded" as another poster had noted some time back. So even when .45 acp HP does not expand, it can still be better than fully expanded 9 mm.

If you are planning for some wacky scenario like that and you don't have 10,000 rounds of what you need as the best possible ammo, then you ain't taking yourself seriously. How long have you had to prepare for this? Heck, it has been nearly 2 years since the great Y2K world-wide destruction scare and you still haven't managed to accumulate enough defensive ammo?

Now is the time that you need to start learning about the concept of logistics, supply, storage, and demand because while you may know about guns, you apparently don't know about logistics.
 

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Originally posted by shane45-1911:
Oh no you don't.......

You're not gonna get me sucked into the old FMJ vs. HP debate....

I am sooooo outta here......


Moving to "Ammo Can" forum...

[This message has been edited by shane45-1911 (edited 11-20-2001).]
LOL! Ok, deep breaths, nice and relaxed now.. ooOoooOoMMmmMmm ooOoooOmMmmmM

A. Hollow points are best.

B. Ball is good enough.

C. +P is a must have.

D. All bullets make holes.
--------------------------
(D.) FINAL ANSWER!




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ME,WE!

[This message has been edited by Citizen_Gilmore (edited 11-22-2001).]
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
My post is not actually about the end of the world. My post is about thinking why you store large ammounts of target ammo yet may have little or no defense or frangible ammo suitable for drywall / stick built houses.
I am actually comfortable about using ball ammo for defense, but prefer corbon or hydra-shock or golden sabers for defense. I am trying to ask you guys and gals if you seperate defense and practice ammo in your mind .
 

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I just love it when people ask a question but use a set of words for another question instead of what was intended. That is like being questioned by my ex-wife!

I am confused, however. What do you mean that you want to know if we keep practice and defense ammo separate in our minds? Let's see, the cost differently and come in different boxes and look differently. Obviously, I am missing out on what you are asking. Are you actually asking if we keep a mental inventory of how much we have of each?

[This message has been edited by Double Naught Spy (edited 11-22-2001).]
 

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"Just when i thought i was out, THEY PULL ME BACK IN!"
LOL.. Sorry couldn`t resist..
Ok, i personally buy, use, and shoot, only ball ammo, so yes i feel well served with my target, pratcice, ball ammo, for defence.. I use to think i needed to chase the latest HP design and keep up with all the changes, records, testomonials, ballistics, and reports, but i chose to "stop the insanity" I now devote all my efforts into the ability to put "the rock" where i want it to go..
-Gilmore

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ME,WE!
 

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Do HP stop better than ball in general? Yes

Is .45 ball good enough to stop almost any human? Yes

Train as you fight. If you train ball, carry ball.

If you want to carry HP, be sure to spend the money and train with it.

...and that is all I have to say about that!
 

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Offhand I'd say I've got one box each of Hydra-shocks in .45acp and .38spl. There's a 50 rd. box of .357 Fed. Hi-shocks (sp?) and 150 rds. of assorted .45 ball in my ammo can. Yes, if need be I'd use the ball with no hesitation whatsoever - though the hydras are loaded in the mags now so they get dibs!

I usually try to pick up a box or two if I go to Wally World, but that's pretty rare lately.

Is that the info. you were asking for?

Mac
 
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