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Discussion Starter #1
...what are they, and and how did they perform?

Screw the hypothetical gelatin and backyard water jug tests. Lets get down to the performance in the human body.
 

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Certain doctors are out there doing this kind of post mortem work in police shootings. Just make sure to establish your sources bona fides to make sure you dont end up with some huckster who manufactures their data.

From what I have read written by a few such individuals (IWBA members etc.) the bullets that do well in denim covered gelatin tests do well on the street and vice versa.

I would agree with your screw water jugs statement. Its not scientific nor does it approximate real world conditions.
 

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Having worked in Property & Evidence at our Sheriffs Dept for 3 years, I have seen first hand many bullets recovered from humans, and the reports to go with them. It has been my experience, that those rounds that do well in my backyard waterjug tests, are the same ones that I saw perform well in the human body. The only problem I have with Gelatin, is that it is a very consistant medium, and the human body is not. Thats not to say Gel tests arent a very important and valid testing tool. YMMV.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Where is some reliable data from these doctors?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Hawkeye1 said:
Having worked in Property & Evidence at our Sheriffs Dept for 3 years, I have seen first hand many bullets recovered from humans, and the reports to go with them. It has been my experience, that those rounds that do well in my backyard waterjug tests, are the same ones that I saw perform well in the human body. The only problem I have with Gelatin, is that it is a very consistant medium, and the human body is not. Thats not to say Gel tests arent a very important and valid testing tool. YMMV.
Do you know what type/caliber/brand these extracted bullets are?
 

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Gargoyle said:
Do you know what type/caliber/brand these extracted bullets are?
That is a hard one to answer. That was back in 94-97. I know there were some of the usual name brands. Our Dept was/is using 180 gr Ranger's. They did work very well in humans. I'll have to look back and see if I still have any of my notes that I was making then. Not sure if they got lost over the years or not.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I want to know if there have been Speer Gold Dots pulled from corpses, Black Talons, Goldensabers, etc...
 

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Gargoyle

Check the latest issue of Handguns magazine. There is an article called "On patrol" on page 67 there is a picture of different bullets recovered from autopsy. Here is the quote of the picture:

Contrary to what many say, the 147-grain 9mm has performed weell in many police shootings. These 147-grain bullets, removed from autopsy, are, from left to rigth: Federal Hydra-Shok, Remington Golden SAbre, Winchester SXT, and Speer Gold Dot.

What I see from the picture is that the only bullet that shows questionable expansion is the Hydra-Shok. The other 3 expanded just like in the gelatin tests.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Re: Gargoyle

yucapote said:
What I see from the picture is that the only bullet that shows questionable expansion is the Hydra-Shok. The other 3 expanded just like in the gelatin tests.
I've heard the Hydra-Shoks are under scrutiny. Thanks yucapote! Do you know of any .45 pulled?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Mus said:
Of course there have.
Hows that post count going Mus? I don't think you have ever responded to one of my posts with anything worth a ****.
 

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Gargoyle said:
Hows that post count going Mus? I don't think you have ever responded to one of my posts with anything worth a ****.
Actually I already answered a couple of your dumb questions you just didnt like the answers.

I already told you you can get reliable scientific information from the IWBA. I also told you that what I read from some of those people is that the bullets doing well in denim covered gelatin testing are those that are doing well in officer involved shootings.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Mus,

My fault, I must have been hypoglycemic and combative when I posted that last response. I apologize. It is not right to say all your responses aren't good, but sometimes I feel your responses are on the brink of "smartassedness."

BTW, Do you really think my questions are dumb or were you just pissed at me?
 

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Gargoyle & Mus, why don't you two take it off-line?
 

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Gargoyle

Check your nasty mouth at the door .
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Re: Gargoyle

guy sajer said:
Check your nasty mouth at the door .
OK! I apologized, I was wrong to post what I did! No need to keep harping on it!
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Yeah, and I can do alot more with it too!:D
 
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