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Probably should be in the USGI forum for more comments.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Usgi?

Is this a USGI pistol? I didn't see any markings that would identify it as government property... is that typical?
 

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Is this a USGI pistol? I didn't see any markings that would identify it as government property... is that typical?
AFAIK, Ithaca only made pistols for the government during WWII. There are two solutions to no government markings,; 1: A "lunch box" gun that was taken from the factory before the military markings were added or 2: It has an after market frame.


There may be other reasong for no military markings but I'll leave it up to the "pros" of military 1911s.
 

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Something's very fishy with the frame. It looks like a Colt frame, but there is no Verified Proof and of course it's missing all the USGI markings.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
hmmmm

I looked for matching numbers but the ONLY serial I could find is the one on the frame. I have been unable to find any other markings on the frame or anywhere.....

I looked a little closer and found this mark:

 

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Well, that is the Ordnance Dep't acceptance stamp so the frame is for real. However, to possibly enhance the 'lunchbox' theory, notice the bad machining on the bottom of the triggerguard, how it has an angle instead of returning to the grip frame parallel to the gun. I'm wondering if it was rejected at some point and then just 'walked' away? Maybe the frame did come from Ithaca. The slide has been polished and reblued and the frame has been blasted and reParkerized, both done in the civvy world. Possibly the pistol was used in the service and was a 'bring back', and somebody sanded away the Gov Prop marking. In any event, it could be made a little better-looking but will always be a 'shooter'.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
bring back?

A bring back?

This was in the collection of a U.S Army Special Forces Veteran who had served in Vietnam. Possible his service pistol?
 

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Ithaca?

This is another case where someone brings a pistol to a forum wanting information, but hides the most important part, the serial number. The serial number could be an Ithaca, or a Remington Rand. How about a good close-up of the area where the serial number is?
By having the acceptance stamp, the pistol was not a reject, as the acceptance stamp was the last thing applied to the finished pistol.
 

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From the partial serial number visible, it looks like it could be one of the 24 serial numbers assigned as "replacement numbers" in Clawson's list. Maybe that is why it is odd?? We need the full number.

I was in Special Forces and those guys would do some strange things and not always lawful. Lots of the older guy were from the day when SF was under CIA control, not army. They were trained in picking locks, so your lock had no real effect. Homemade zip guns from gernade simulators, or from other foundations, were common. I wanted one not knowing they were illegal. Glad I did not go there.
 

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A bring back?

This was in the collection of a U.S Army Special Forces Veteran who had served in Vietnam. Possible his service pistol?
That was just speculation on my part, and I need to stop doing that. Just looking at the font, size and location of the serial number, it seems to be a little larger and located higher on the frame than my 2.145 RR, not leaving much room for the 'United States Property' mark above it. It does have a '5' on the web of the trigger guard where mine has an '8', but there are a lot of other marks missing. These missing marks can be indicative of 'cleaned' pistols where the owner wanted to remove evidence of U.S. property - these are fairly common. As Johnny says, it was accepted at one time and the markings had to be there.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Thanks to all for your comments and assessments. I have enjoyed reading what you all think of this piece. As far as posting the serial goes, I would rather not if I can avoid it. Most of it is there and I thought that might be enough.

I can say that a little googling turned up a list that showed that Ithaca frames bearing a serial number in a given range were manufactured in certain years. The number on this piece would have dated it for 1943.

I inspected the pistol with a little better lighting and turned up a couple more marks. I hope they might reveal more about this pistol.





 

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I don't understand why some people get so freaked out about posting serial numbers. What do you think somebody's gonna do with it?
 

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I don't understand why some people get so freaked out about posting serial numbers. What do you think somebody's gonna do with it?
I think a prior owner's ex wife will sue anyone she can in connection with any property she thinks she can identify as previously belonging to her ex husband. While I am confident that the pistol pictured does not belong to her and that she has no interest, marital or otherwise in it, the new owner and I would both prefer not to litigate that matter.
 

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Ithaca?

The serial number shown is in the Ithaca serial number range, but the serial number is out of place on the frame, and the other markings near the serial number could not have been removed without removing the serial number. Also, I don't believe the font on the serial number is correct for an Ithaca. The crossed cannon acceptance stamp seems to identify the pistol as an original pistol, but the serial number appears changed. In other words, an altered serial number.
 
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