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@mikemyers

Hospitals are not overwhelmed. Respirators are coming out of wazoo at this point. We’ve done it. The sick can be cared for. Asymptomatic transmission is negligible, kids are not in danger. Time to get on with being American and doing American kinda things. Like not wearing diapers on our faces when being healthy and surrounded by healthy people.
 

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Well, I just got off the phone with my general contractor, I'm following Walmart guidelines for masking.
I'm putting a chain link fence around my yard, to keep the Covid infected mosquitoes out. my contractor stayed in a Holiday Inn last night and he says it's at least as effective as a good paper mask.

So much bullshirt to be evaluated, so little time until elections
RED
 

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@mikemyers

Hospitals are not overwhelmed. Respirators are coming out of wazoo at this point. We’ve done it. The sick can be cared for. Asymptomatic transmission is negligible, kids are not in danger. Time to get on with being American and doing American kinda things. Like not wearing diapers on our faces when being healthy and surrounded by healthy people.
This is exactly the point!
Only, maybe in a couple areas are any hospitals “overwhelmed” that are mostly Covid. And therefore the rest of the nation needs to suffer?? By this time, 5 months, well over 50% of the population has been exposed, 50% of the death toll is total BS and no one is paying attention to the percentages. Masks, social distancing, closing up businesses has been mandated for a month in many “hotspots”. Apparently, they can’t get their lies straight, because they keep reporting that the numbers are out of control. Someone is not following the script handed down by the CDC.
 

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Trying to stop the Wuhan flu with a mask is like trying to keep mosquitos out of your house with chain link fencing. I do not understand how anyone could believe such a ridiculous idea. I don't care if you believe "Well, it has to help" or "it couldn't hurt" - it's dumb idea. If it makes you feel safer then you should go back to the 1st grade and start all over again. All of this advice is coming from the exact same people at the CDC who told us that people in severe chronic pain who have been taking opioids for 30 years and never becoming addicted should have their pain relief taken away - because they might get addicted. Wake up America - you're being played. And if we know that this came from China how come no one classifies this as an attack on the United States?
 

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Well, I just saw Nadler telling someone that the Portland riots were all a fantasy in the DC mind.

With that sort of madness, I look forward to the future - need more powder.
 

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Trying to stop the Wuhan flu with a mask is like trying to keep mosquitos out of your house with chain link fencing. I do not understand how anyone could believe such a ridiculous idea. I don't care if you believe "Well, it has to help" or "it couldn't hurt" - it's dumb idea. If it makes you feel safer then you should go back to the 1st grade and start all over again. All of this advice is coming from the exact same people at the CDC who told us that people in severe chronic pain who have been taking opioids for 30 years and never becoming addicted should have their pain relief taken away - because they might get addicted. Wake up America - you're being played. And if we know that this came from China how come no one classifies this as an attack on the United States?
An attack on the world! All of their labs should be dismantled, they cannot be trusted. Four times now, they have had “oopsies” with deadly virus containment. Why is it allowed? Again, turn those carriers into the wind......
 

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Well, I just saw Nadler telling someone that the Portland riots were all a fantasy in the DC mind.

With that sort of madness, I look forward to the future - need more powder.
I heard that on the radio yesterday. He denied that anything was happening. A perfect example of these fools pandering to the misfit BLM movement, which happens to be mostly supported by idiot unemployed white brats. They want the vote. It is so important to beat Trump that they will let their cities burn.
Let’s go down to Redmond and toss a couple bricks through the Microsoft windows and see how long it takes to shut that down.
 

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@mikemyers

Hospitals are not overwhelmed. Respirators are coming out of wazoo at this point. We’ve done it. The sick can be cared for. Asymptomatic transmission is negligible, kids are not in danger. Time to get on with being American and doing American kinda things. Like not wearing diapers on our faces when being healthy and surrounded by healthy people.
Hospitals - well, where I live, in Miami, they are more than overwhelmed, but maybe not near you. Actually wearing diapers on your face isn't to protect you, it's to protect others from you. The problem is "spreading the virus", not "catching the virus". If somehow nobody around you was spreading the virus, there would be nothing for you to catch.

I figure living in America includes being "safe" and "free", neither of which is possible if others around us are doing unsafe things that endanger the rest of us. IMHO.
 

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Well, I just got off the phone with my general contractor, I'm following Walmart guidelines for masking.
I'm putting a chain link fence around my yard, to keep the Covid infected mosquitoes out. my contractor stayed in a Holiday Inn last night and he says it's at least as effective as a good paper mask.

So much bullshirt to be evaluated, so little time until elections
RED
Not sure what any of this has to do with elections. I think it has everything to do with the fact that I'm afraid to walk out of my door right now, because in Miami the virus is spreading like a wildfire. The USA is way behind - other countries have found a way to control the virus. We did, for a while, but then we let it get out of control in other parts of our country.
 

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Trying to stop the Wuhan flu with a mask is like trying to keep mosquitos out of your house with chain link fencing. I do not understand how anyone could believe such a ridiculous idea....
Very true, but that's not the reason they want us to wear masks. They're trying to prevent moisture with the virus attached from getting from inside our bodies, through the mask, and making other people sick. Assuming you're wearing a good mask, perhaps several layers of cloth, the mask does this very well.

The main reason for the mask isn't to keep "you" safe from the outside air, it's to keep others safe from "your" air that you are breathing out one way or another.

If you're outdoors, breathing in fresh air, the mask isn't really needed. If you're indoors, with other people around, all of them wearing a mask is to keep you safe.
 

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Very true, but that's not the reason they want us to wear masks. They're trying to prevent moisture with the virus attached from getting from inside our bodies, through the mask, and making other people sick. Assuming you're wearing a good mask, perhaps several layers of cloth, the mask does this very well.

The main reason for the mask isn't to keep "you" safe from the outside air, it's to keep others safe from "your" air that you are breathing out one way or another.

If you're outdoors, breathing in fresh air, the mask isn't really needed. If you're indoors, with other people around, all of them wearing a mask is to keep you safe.
The problem with this is that even N-95 Masks and FFR's (Full Face Respirators) do absolutely nothing to protect anyone else from what you breathe out.

From OSHA at:

https://www.osha.gov/SLTC/covid-19/covid-19-faq.html

Some vitally important statements from OSHA concerning Cloth Masks and Surgical Masks.

Cloth Masks:

"""Are not considered personal protective equipment (PPE).

Will not protect the wearer against airborne transmissible infectious agents due to loose fit and lack of seal or inadequate filtration.

Are not appropriate substitutes for PPE such as respirators (e.g., N95 respirators) or medical face masks (e.g., surgical masks) in workplaces where respirators or face masks are recommended or required to protect the wearer."""


Surgical Masks:

"""Will not protect the wearer against airborne transmissible infectious agents due to loose fit and lack of seal or inadequate filtration."""


The full text is:

Cloth face coverings:

May be commercially produced or improvised (i.e., homemade) garments, scarves, bandanas, or items made from t-shirts or other fabrics.

Are worn in public over the nose and mouth to contain the wearer's potentially infectious respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs, sneezes, or talks and to limit the spread of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19), to others.

Are not considered personal protective equipment (PPE).

Will not protect the wearer against airborne transmissible infectious agents due to loose fit and lack of seal or inadequate filtration.

Are not appropriate substitutes for PPE such as respirators (e.g., N95 respirators) or medical face masks (e.g., surgical masks) in workplaces where respirators or face masks are recommended or required to protect the wearer.

May be used by almost any worker, although those who have trouble breathing or are otherwise unable to put on or remove a mask without assistance should not wear one.

May be disposable or reusable after proper washing.


Surgical masks:

Are typically cleared by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration as medical devices (though not all devices that look like surgical masks are actually medical-grade, cleared devices).

Are used to protect workers against splashes and sprays (i.e., droplets) containing potentially infectious materials. In this capacity, surgical masks are considered PPE. Under OSHA's PPE standard (29 CFR 1910.132), employers must provide any necessary PPE at no-cost to workers.1

May also be worn to contain the wearer's respiratory droplets (e.g., healthcare workers, such as surgeons, wear them to avoid contaminating surgical sites, and dentists and dental hygienists wear them to protect patients).

Should be placed on sick individuals to prevent the transmission of respiratory infections that spread by large droplets.

Will not protect the wearer against airborne transmissible infectious agents due to loose fit and lack of seal or inadequate filtration.

May be used by almost anyone.

Should be properly disposed of after use.


Respirators (e.g., filtering facepieces):

Are used to prevent workers from inhaling small particles, including airborne transmissible or aerosolized infectious agents.

Must be provided and used in accordance with OSHA's Respiratory Protection standard (29 CFR 1910.134).

Must be certified by the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH).

OSHA has temporarily exercised its enforcement discretion concerning supply shortages of disposable filtering facepiece respirators (FFRs), including as it relates to their extended use or reuse, use beyond their manufacturer's recommended shelf life, use of equipment from certain other countries and jurisdictions, and decontamination.

Need proper filter material (e.g., N95 or better) and, other than for loose-fitting powered, air purifying respirators (PAPRs), tight fit (to prevent air leaks).

Require proper training, fit testing, availability of appropriate medical evaluations and monitoring, cleaning, and oversight by a knowledgeable staff member.

OSHA has temporarily exercised its enforcement discretion concerning annual fit testing requirements in the Respiratory Protection standard (29 CFR 1910.134), as long as employers have made good-faith efforts to comply with the requirements of the standard and to follow the steps outlined in the March 14, 2020, and April 8, 2020, memoranda (as applicable to their industry).

When necessary to protect workers, require a respiratory protection program that is compliant with OSHA's Respiratory Protection standard (29 CFR 1910.134).

OSHA consultation staff can assist with understanding respiratory protection requirements.

FFRs may be used voluntarily, if permitted by the employer. If an employer permits voluntary use of FFRs, employees must receive the information contained in Appendix D of OSHA's Respiratory Protection standard (29 CFR 1910.134).
 

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Hospitals - well, where I live, in Miami, they are more than overwhelmed, but maybe not near you. Actually wearing diapers on your face isn't to protect you, it's to protect others from you. The problem is "spreading the virus", not "catching the virus". If somehow nobody around you was spreading the virus, there would be nothing for you to catch.

I figure living in America includes being "safe" and "free", neither of which is possible if others around us are doing unsafe things that endanger the rest of us. IMHO.
Hmmmm, interestingly enough, a doctor from the Miami area just made a presentation that the Miami area is counting any viral condition Covid. Numbers like 95 were "mistyped" and were really 9.5. ya might want to go outside and find out what is really going on. Tominmissouri attached a link around here about that. Ill see if i can find it.
 

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The problem with this is that even N-95 Masks and FFR's (Full Face Respirators) do absolutely nothing to protect anyone else from what you breathe out......
I went to the page you referred to.....

https://www.osha.gov/SLTC/covid-19/covid-19-faq.html

I scrolled down, and clicked on "Cloth Face Coverings".

Here are the top three things on the list:

  • May be commercially produced or improvised (i.e., homemade) garments, scarves, bandanas, or items made from t-shirts or other fabrics.
  • Are worn in public over the nose and mouth to contain the wearer's potentially infectious respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs, sneezes, or talks and to limit the spread of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19), to others.
  • Are not considered personal protective equipment (PPE).
The first of those, is what kinds of cloth masks exist, and while it doesn't say it here, it doesn't take much searching to find which masks are the most effective.

The second of these, is what I'm trying to explain - that the mask is not intended to protect the wearer, but to protect other people FROM the wearer.

The third is what a lot of people in this forum already seem to know. Cloth masks are not intended to provide perfect protection to the wearer. Even the official PPE gear is not 100% effective, which is part of why we sometimes read about doctors and care givers getting infected on the job.


Excellent link. There is also a full section on "Surgical masks" right under the section on "Cloth face coverings".
 

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The end times are here! I thought people who drive a car with no one else in it and still wear a mask was bad, then are a few times they even had the clear face shield on too. But today I saw a guy on a Harley that was a righteous bike with apes, did not appear to be a yuppie judging by his attire, wearing a fricking mask!! You can’t make this stuff up!!
 

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Wearing a mask to protect others works only if it truly acts to contain the microscopic-sized bad guys.

Whether it does or doesn't -- or how much "in-between" protection is provided -- seems still an unresolved question.

Apparently no one has yet provided a trusted, scientifically valid testing protocol, with results understandable and believable, so as to persuade anyone to change their opinion...no matter what that opinion may be. No one disagrees that a chain-link fence fails to stop mosquitoes. What seems unknown (or is in reasonable dispute) is whether this analogy is equally applicable to cloth masks and covid-19.

And I suppose that no one wants to be a test subject for purposeful exposure to covid-19.:rolleyes:

Personally, since my sentiments have wavered a little, and there's still no convincing evidence (other than someone saying or writing "trust me, I'm right", which isn't so convincing), I remain open to and awaiting solid evidence.

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I've expressed my sentiments towards masks, as those sentiments existed at different times, in various earlier posts and threads, so no need to repeat them now. But I was disappointed in the spread of covid-19 in Texas that occurred after many businesses re-opened with customers wearing the "protective" masks. This result was not a confidence builder, to say the least. Whether it would have been worse -- or how much worse -- without those masks appears hypothetical and something that's not ascertainable. Anecdotal evidence provides little help, as examples can be found to support virtually any opinion.
 

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I do my best to ignore the mask all day, every day. When I put on my Lemming Token, I wear it politician style: nose out, or covering my chin. (I tried over my eyes, but I'm already going blind - it won't stretch over my ears to protect them, and it needs a dbl-bbl to wear on yer head, properly)
 

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This is a well-written article on how to make your own masks at home:
https://www.wired.com/story/how-to-make-a-cloth-face-mask/#intcid=recommendations_wired-bottom-recirc-personalized_2e74b7e3-93cc-4d48-9b5e-fb10d4a79515_similar2-3-personalized-personalized-mab

(If you open it from this very long link, it's supposed to open even if you don't subscribe to Wired Magazine. It did for me. If it doesn't work for you, sorry.)
You are an excellent slave. I am sure you will be promoted to Overseer in record time.
 

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Wearing a mask to protect others works only if it truly acts to contain the microscopic-sized bad guys.

Whether it does or doesn't -- or how much "in-between" protection is provided -- seems still an unresolved question.

Apparently no one has yet provided a trusted, scientifically valid testing protocol, with results understandable and believable, so as to persuade anyone to change their opinion...no matter what that opinion may be. No one disagrees that a chain-link fence fails to stop mosquitoes. What seems unknown (or is in reasonable dispute) is whether this analogy is equally applicable to cloth masks and covid-19.

And I suppose that no one wants to be a test subject for purposeful exposure to covid-19.:rolleyes

Personally, since my sentiments have wavered a little, and there's still no convincing evidence (other than someone saying or writing "trust me, I'm right", which isn't so convincing), I remain open to and awaiting solid evidence.

----

I've expressed my sentiments towards masks, as those sentiments existed at different times, in various earlier posts and threads, so no need to repeat them now. But I was disappointed in the spread of covid-19 in Texas that occurred after many businesses re-opened with customers wearing the "protective" masks. This result was not a confidence builder, to say the least. Whether it would have been worse -- or how much worse -- without those masks appears hypothetical and something that's not ascertainable. Anecdotal evidence provides little help, as examples can be found to support virtually any opinion.
You're touching on a good point....almost there. Texas, opening everything up was obviously going to raise the rate, or at least raise up the false numbers. Here is the big point.....massively populated areas such as Florida and Texas have shut everything down and mandated masks. This was a while ago, and yet, the numbers "reported" are out of control. The lag for a person that gets it until they show bad enough symptoms to get tested is, at the most, a week. If this mask hoax actually worked, especially after shutting everything down, you would see a drastic drop in cases almost immediately and certainly by the end of a two week period. AT LEAST a reduction......NOPE, nothin', zilch, nada, nyet...big fat zero of a decline.
Its OK though, any articles or discussion about the topic will be taken off Facebook, Google, Twitter Twatter and any other commie run social media! :barf:
 

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Wearing a mask to protect others works only if it truly acts to contain the microscopic-sized bad guys.

Whether it does or doesn't -- or how much "in-between" protection is provided -- seems still an unresolved question.

Apparently no one has yet provided a trusted, scientifically valid testing protocol, with results understandable and believable, so as to persuade anyone to change their opinion...no matter what that opinion may be. No one disagrees that a chain-link fence fails to stop mosquitoes. What seems unknown (or is in reasonable dispute) is whether this analogy is equally applicable to cloth masks and covid-19.

Very likely, there will never be an answer to your question. Still, people can buy whatever quality cloth mask they want, although N95 masks not only aren't readily available, but we're supposed to not buy them, as the care givers need them more than we do.

Compare this whole mask discussion to wearing glasses while shooting. Wearing any shooting glasses is better than wearing no shooting glasses, but my own set of polycarbonate shooting glasses still allowed a shell casing to bounce off a post to my right, and bounce back into my face. Once I put on a set of side protectors, I felt (feel) pretty good. I guess I ought to have bought a set of prescription shooting glasses that also provided side protection.


My point - a cloth mask can be useless or approach the capability of a professional mask, but the idea of not wearing a mask at all leaves others with no protection from you.


I gotta go. it's interesting to discuss this, but the reason I enjoy this forum so much is for information on my 1911. Even with the 1911, I think some cheap versions are available for $600 or so, but quality guns cost way up in the thousands, and even those aren't good enough if you want to compete in Bullseye. Then you need a gunsmith to do the things the experts demand.... which I don't demand. I bought a used custom built Springfield for $1,500. For me, with my ability, this was more than "good enough". And my new masks that just arrived today with three layers of fine cloth, are more than good enough. (Do a search for Tom Bihn masks, if you're interested.)
 
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