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I know that civilian and police shooting distances mirror each other at about 3-7 yards being the vast majority.


But, I cannot find this info anywhere. Does anyone know what the engagement distances are for urban warfare?

This is just a question of curiosity, probably not even related to 1911's or our civilian lives.


I just can't find the answer and hoped the 1911 forum community would know. Any recent vets from Iraq?
 

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After a few hours on the net I think I found the answer. It is 50 meters, about 55 yards.

Amazing. I thought it would be farther.
 

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After a few hours on the net I think I found the answer. It is 50 meters, about 55 yards. .

Keep in mind that is probably the "average" distance?

That would mean about 1/2 of engagements will occur at more than 50 meters,
and about 1/2 will occur at less than 50 meters.

So anywhere out to about a 100 meters, with the average being 50 meters.

That's a long way. Better bring a rifle.
 

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Keep in mind that is probably the "average" distance?

That would mean about 1/2 of engagements will occur at more than 50 meters,
and about 1/2 will occur at less than 50 meters.
QUOTE]

Good point Captain.

Lots of talk about the average for pistols too. You know, 3 ft, 3 shots, 3 seconds.

Although if the average is 3 ft distance there must be a lot of contact wounds.
 

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My limited experience.

I had a bit of experience in this back in the early nineties. I guess I can agree with the average of fifty yards, but a lot of it was either contact distance or about a block away. Probably one third close, two thirds farther away.
 

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The info we are putting out in the short range marksmanship classes I teach at Ft. Benning says 0-200 meters. We focus more on 50 and closer. The info we based this on came from a source the army uses to develop new TTPs...
 

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When you get to the distances the forum gentlemen have commented on (50-100 meters) and only have a handgun, the effectiveness of such an engagement becomes more what's an effective caliber; the .45ACP is pushed to an extreme while the 10mm becomes a true champion...
 

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Keep in mind that is probably the "average" distance?

That would mean about 1/2 of engagements will occur at more than 50 meters,
and about 1/2 will occur at less than 50 meters.

So anywhere out to about a 100 meters, with the average being 50 meters.

That's a long way. Better bring a rifle.

You are describing the "median" distance then, not the average distance.
 

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During my military training in the Dutch army for a UN-mission, we were told (and trained for) that the average conflictsituation, man to man, was 5 to 7 meters. Ambush in urban enviroment could be any distance within 100 meters.

Hope this info is usefull
 

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During my military training in the Dutch army for a UN-mission, we were told (and trained for) that the average conflict situation, man to man, was 5 to 7 meters. Ambush in urban enviroment could be any distance within 100 meters.
Hope this info is usefull
In the USAF (Security Police) we were told the same thing.
And we trained for that such type encounter within 100 meters.
 

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Well, "urban" means just that. Houses, people, cars, corners, camels. There's a lot of stuff in the way, in the average "urban" setting. The farther out you get, the more "stuff" is in the way (if you are on the ground), and the less you can see and consequently have to shoot at...50 meters is about right.... For the surgical sniper, high point and open field of fire are an equine of an entirely different hue...
 

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Realistically in urban US, it's close and personal. If you're in a sniper situation armed with a handgun, you'd best be ducking and running.
 

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Amen AZHusker! Question was "engagement distances for urban warfare." For recent declared urban warfare, on the rooftops of Falluja 200-300 meters or more, depending on visibility; sometimes a lot more. On the streets of Falluja about 50 meters. In either place, a handgun is a backup. Just my educated estimate.
 

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Agreed!
If 3 shootings took place (small war) one at 20 yards, one at 50 yards and one at 200.....
The average distance would be: 90 yards.
The median distance would be: 50 yards.
Technically, they're both averages, the first is the arithmetic mean (what people usually mean by "average"). But any measure of central tendency (mean (of which there are many types), median, mode, etc.) is an "average", which is why it is not a particularly good term to use since it can mean many different things.

50 meters sounds about right for the mean distance, but I would imagine that this is one of those examples when another measure of central tendency (like mode - most common distance) would be more useful.
 

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Technically, they're both averages, the first is the arithmetic mean (what people usually mean by "average"). But any measure of central tendency (mean (of which there are many types), median, mode, etc.) is an "average", which is why it is not a particularly good term to use since it can mean many different things.
Average could also refer to the mode, or most often occurring number so if 50 shootings occurred at 10 yds, 25 at 50 yds, and 30 at 100 yds, then the average could be 10 yds (mode), 25 yds (median), or 45.23 yds (mean). This book covers this topic in detail http://www.amazon.com/How-Lie-Statistics-Darrell-Huff/dp/0393310728/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1199246042&sr=8-1

On topic, I would guess that the vast majority of combat shootings occur at well under 100 yards, but that is a completely unfounded guess.
 

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I believe most police sniper engagements occur at right around 50 meters or so. Our urban combat training included drills at 0-50 meters. Much past that you're looking at rifle only, preferably machinegun work.
 

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Am I gonna have to call my sister the accountant? Average, mean median, mode:confused:

Honestly, averages are all fine and good, but I think you need to look at some unlikely situations. Can the longer shots present themselves? If teh answer is yes, you need to train for it. Pistol or rifle.

I've worked at places that issued three different long guns, one being an 11-87 for "indoors", forgetting all the training, logistical and response issues this raised, the fact was, many places in our "indoors" presented shots at over 100mtrs. Doing a slug select drill while being suppressed by an AK is not the ideal way of dealing with it.

The average citizen is not going to get into a gunfight, much less urban warfare, so, following that, why even carry a gun?.............. because we're not playing the averages.

Train to engage at the maximum effective range of your weapon. Probably about 50mtrs for th pistol and 2-300mtrs for the carbine.

Bob
 

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De FBI sez.....

From:
http://www.fbi.gov/publications/leb/2007/june2007/june2007leb.htm

The correct application of shooting fundamentals becomes more critical as distance increases. Within 5 to 7 yards, shooting is more of a conditioned response and instinct than the precise application of refined skill. Some argue that, statistically, law enforcement officers are involved in shooting confrontations within a 10-foot radius, and, therefore, all training should be conducted within those parameters. While statistics are useful tools in capturing trends and identifying probabilities, an indisputable fact of firearms training is that once officers master shooting at 25 yards, conditioning them to shoot quicker at closer targets generally proves much easier than trying to transition them from shooting only at close range to firing their weapons at extended distances.

Summary: 10 feet if you are LE, but train beyond that.
 
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