[Paje]

Does anyone have the latest copy of the FAA (or Homeland Security now?) memorandum to it's Aviation Security Divisions on which federal employees are waved through security checkpoints?
Here is a 'working' (need update/accuracy check) list of U.S. governmental agencies authorized to be armed anywhere in the country:

ATF
FBI
Secret Service
DEA
Enviromental Protection Agency
Department of Agriculture
Department of Education
Department of Immigration
Department of Labor
Department of Energy
Department of Commerce
Department of Health & Human Services
IRS (not a us gov agency in fact)
+ (pls add any I missed... i.e. National Park Service, Postal Inspection Service, Bureau of Diplomatic Security, U.S. Fish and Wildlife?)

All of these are, of course, exempt from any firearm restrictions (i.e. Caliber, full auto, etc., etc.,). Which agencies have their own "SWAT" teams? (FBI, BATF, DEA, U.S. Marshalls Service, even the National Park Service and Department of Health and Human Services, +?)

Just how many federal agents (60,000 in '97) are now trained and authorized to enforce the over 3,000 criminal laws Congress has passed over the years, plus the hundreds of thousands of regulations which now carry criminal penalties?

Does the ATF still have the 22 OV-10D aircraft purchased from the Defense Department in '95? What other 'toys' do any/all of these agencies have so that they can better "conduct criminal investigations, regulate the firearms and explosives industries, and assist other law enforcement agencies" (in the case of the BATF)?

Perhaps we need Constitutional Amendment 2.5?

1. No government agency, nor employee of any government agency, shall be allowed to possess firearms prohibited to the citizens of the state, county, or municipality in which they serve.

2. No government agency, nor any employee of any government agency, shall be exempt from laws and regulations regarding the possession or use of firearms which affect the citizens of the state, county, or municipality in which they serve.

3. All exemptions inconsistent with sections 1 and 2 shall be void beginning on the 30th day after the ratification of this amendment.

4. Nothing in this amendment shall be construed to exempt agencies and employees of the federal government from federal, state, or local laws and regulations related to firearms.

5. Nothing in this amendment shall apply to the Department of Defense or states' National Guards.

 

[Mus]

5. Nothing in this amendment shall apply to the Department of Defense or states' National Guards.[/i]

They could do box shuffling and put any desired organization under the DOD. Furthermore, since the plain language of the 2nd amendment is already ignored and deliberately misinterpreted do we really think another amendment would fit the bill?

Thats without even talking about the fact that such an amendment would never pass.

 

[Kilroy6644]

The Government follow their own laws? But then they'd have to use the same stuff we do! Where's the advantage in that?

 

[Paje]

Goose and Gander Amendment

that amendment bit is satire, an attempt to make the following point:
That antigun politicians and the lobbyists who support them are so willing to exempt the government from the gun laws suggests that many gun-control laws have less to do with protecting public safety than with disarming the citizenry and exalting the government. The policy reflects a philosophy that sovereignty belongs to the government rather than to the people — which is just the opposite of what the Constitution says.

So does anyone have a GAO inventory list of military goodies possesed by any of the various law enforcement agencies? Your tax dollars at work. FOIA requests required?

 

[James]

Where are we going with this?

 

[DMF]

Enviromental Protection Agency
Department of Agriculture
Department of Education
Department of Immigration
Department of Labor
Department of Energy
Department of Commerce
Department of Health & Human Services

Well Paje, no one in those agencies is authorized to be armed by the agency, however the Special Agents in the Office of the Inspector General agencies that have oversight of those agencies, and investigate crimes affecting those agencies do have LEOs who are authorized to be armed. The Department of Labor, OIG is NOT the same thing as the Department of Labor.

Also no one, whether it's an FBI Special Agent, Postal Inspector, Deputy US Marshal, or Special Agent of the Railroad Retirement Board, Office of the Inspector General is "waived" through security. They just follow a different procedure, which I won't be detailing for you here on the internet.

IRS (not a us gov agency in fact)

Well the IRS is a government agency, and the only armed LEOs in the IRS are the Special Agents of the IRS Criminal Investigations (IRS-CI). Whoever told you the IRS or IRS-CI are not an agency of the federal government is full of crap. Both are agencies that operate under the US Department of the Treasury.

+ (pls add any I missed... i.e. National Park Service, Postal Inspection Service, Bureau of Diplomatic Security, U.S. Fish and Wildlife?)

You missed about 5 dozen various agencies created by Congress to enforce various portions of the US Code.

. . . U.S. Marshalls Service . . .

Marshals, with one L please. They are cops, not a department store.

Does the ATF still have the 22 OV-10D aircraft purchased from the Defense Department in '95?

No, and in fact they didn't have those planes for very long at all. Congress gave them to another agency. IIRC correctly they ended up with State Department. Also, it's important to note those OV-10s had all military armament removed, which meant the ATF got a twin engine turbo prop aircraft to use for surveillance. Kind of like other agencies such as the US Coast Guard, USCS (now ICE and CBP), and FBI have aircraft for surveillance.

 

[The Drew]

Since congress passed the universal carry for law enforcement bill it is obvious that all those departments AND anyone considered "law enforcement" can be armed anywhere in the nation. I don't understand why this is so shocking...

Just another US vs. them thread...

 

[James]

Since congress passed the universal carry for law enforcement bill it is obvious that all those departments AND anyone considered "law enforcement" can be armed anywhere in the nation. I don't understand why this is so shocking...

Just another US vs. them thread...

This thread hasn't been about that yet. Please don't take it there. He is clearly talking about FEDERAL agencies.

 

[Paje]

Where are we going with this?

Don't you know? :scratch: I jest but, in all seriousness, if this is too touchy or controversial a subject please feel free to lock/bin it as appropriate. I realise my approval is not prerequisite, simply noting that I am not emotionally attached to this thread. :biglaugh:

As far as my intentions, please refer to the questions posed. Perhaps any transparency/accountability of federal government is too much to ask for in this day and age, but I thought that maybe one of the forum members may have known and been able to provide data (linked source) on the inventory/arsenals, etc., of any of the 'authorized to be armed' agencies.

Regarding my personal perspective (fwiw); I find the secrecy, hypocrisy, and militarizing of federal agencies troubling and in conflict with what I understand as the type of government outlined in the Constitution, Federalist papers, etc.,. Gun control has no place in a free society. But this is irrelevant to the discussion. Just the (verifiable) facts (to ?'s above) were being sought.

Regards,
Paje

 

[LW McVay]

Paje

Why do you want to stop with the federal government? You jiggy with NYPD being allowed to carry in Manhattan while the masses there can not? There are other local agencies carrying where the vast majority of the public in the city or state they serve aren't allowed. Doesn't that bother you? :hrm:

Or were you just turned down for a job with a federal agency? :scratch:

And what does this thread have to do with Legal/Political NEWS about the 2A?

 

[James]

Paje,

I am going to close it as I think it will end up being a big fishing expedition and the best we will get is probably an argument.

I am all for preventing the militarization of Law Enforcement agencies.

And what does this thread have to do with Legal/Political NEWS about the 2A?

LW, my intial though also. Was curious, but no longer. Feel free to reopen if you like.

 

[LW McVay]

Feel free to reopen if you like.

Nope. Good call.