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In my opinion, bullets used in semi-autos should have a slightly smaller diameter at the point where it mates with the casing (because in semi-autos, the bullet gets slammed into the feed ramp, and the design shouldn't depend on a crimp to keep the bullet from sliding back into the casing). I suspect this problem occurs fairly often (but usually not as extreme as in this example).
 

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What Magazine were you using when that happened? Post a picture of the feedlips and follower from above. That is actually not uncommon with certain bullet ogives and feedlip styles when paired together.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
I first noticed it when using the OE mags that came with the pistol. I then tried CMC Power Mags which still had the same result.
Now knowing the proper term "bullet ogive", that seems to be where my issue is based. Seeing the picture below my bullets had the far left, and the far right style by my eyes.

I'm not worried about it anymore to be honest. The 230gn is going to work just fine in the semi-auto, the 185gn will feed the revolver.

If I shop for something else to use in the semi I'll pay more attention to the ogive for the ammo selection.

 

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I first noticed it when using the OE mags that came with the pistol. I then tried CMC Power Mags which still had the same result.
Now knowing the proper term "bullet ogive", that seems to be where my issue is based. Seeing the picture below my bullets had the far left, and the far right style by my eyes.

I'm not worried about it anymore to be honest. The 230gn is going to work just fine in the semi-auto, the 185gn will feed the revolver.

If I shop for something else to use in the semi I'll pay more attention to the ogive for the ammo selection.

This is also a good read as to the different mag lip styles. The different magazine lips present the rounds to the feed ramp at differing angles and when combined with the ogive you selected drives the nose into the feed ramp with too little angle to safely deflect it into the chamber. Some ammo just stops the gun with a feed jam. Others like yours, result in a set back of the bullet into the case due to marginal crimp or neck tension of the case. Like a plane crash, its not usually just one thing gone wrong, but several. In your case its probably the bullet ogive coupled with poor crimp/neck tension for the mags your using and maybe the feed ramp is slightly steep.

https://rangehot.com/hybrid-vs-wadcutter-1911-magazine/
 

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Agree.
Poor "bullet pull" and a steep ramp.
Does a S&W .45 have an integral ramp barrel?

My old Commander does quite well with XTPs.
 

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In the early days .45ACP cartridge cases had a heavy cannelure below the bullet to help prevent setback. Unfortunately virtually nobody does that anymore, and bullet setback is a big problem with semi-autos. Yours is one of the more extreme examples however, as usually it's just slight enough to notice after you've chambered the round a few times. Short, fat cartridges like the .380 and .45 are more prone to it than the 9mm, but it can still happen regardless. I wouldn't call it a defect in the ammo, the firearm or the mags, but rather a compatibility issue where apparently the round is fed straight into the side of your feed ramp instead of being allowed to tip up enough to ride up the ramp and into the chamber.
 

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Thanks for sharing!

Here are three S&W's that haven't suffered from bullet set back. I primarily shoot 200 Grain SWC's that are cast from 10 BHN and "crimped" to .470!

I was attempting to show 3 different S&W variations!

Smiles,




View attachment 578076
 

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Since I have reloaded .45 acp for years, it looks like the case still has a little flare to the case mouth. If this is a factory load then it appears to be a manufacturing error. I would contact the manufacturer and talk to them about it. Hope this helps.
Yes, it’s a manufacturing error due to the dies being set for 230 grain bullets rather than the shorter 185 grain bullets, so there’s nothing to prevent the bullet from sliding back into the case as the round is being fed into the chamber.

http://www.massreloading.com/setback.html

Note: figure 3;

“ The potential for setback increases when you load a bullet that is significantly shorter than the bullet for which the expander die was designed. Figure 3 shows cutaways of three .45 ACP cases - the case on the left shows a 230gr FMJ bullet seated to the proper depth, the case in the center shows the expander mandrel fully inserted, and the case on the right shows a properly seated 185gr JHP bullet. The line across the three cases shows the depth to which the expander mandrel was inserted. You can clearly see that the while the expander depth is ideal for the 230gr bullet, it reaches deeper into the case than is necessary for the 185gr bullet, making setback very likely when using this bullet”
 

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Since I have reloaded .45 acp for years, it looks like the case still has a little flare to the case mouth. If this is a factory load then it appears to be a manufacturing error. I would contact the manufacturer and talk to them about it. Hope this helps.
Flair has almost nothing to do with the problem. It is generally one of inadequate resizing of the brass -- a manufacture problem. Contact them, they should replace your ammo with something done properly. Flair is simply to remove the bell put in place to make seating the bullet easier, you just take enough out to allow for reliable feeding, it is not the primary method for tension on the bullet.
 

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This is also a good read as to the different mag lip styles. The different magazine lips present the rounds to the feed ramp at differing angles and when combined with the ogive you selected drives the nose into the feed ramp with too little angle to safely deflect it into the chamber. Some ammo just stops the gun with a feed jam. Others like yours, result in a set back of the bullet into the case due to marginal crimp or neck tension of the case. Like a plane crash, its not usually just one thing gone wrong, but several. In your case its probably the bullet ogive coupled with poor crimp/neck tension for the mags your using and maybe the feed ramp is slightly steep.

https://rangehot.com/hybrid-vs-wadcutter-1911-magazine/
Good info, I will have to check my .45 ammo for type of ojive or cone bullet loaded.
 

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It can be a problem in a revolver as well

If, as most of us seem to think, the ammo is not crimped correctly, it shouldn't be used in a revolver either. While the bullets won't setback from ramp strikes in a revolver, they will pull forward. The gun recoils backward, pulling the ammo in the other chambers by the rim, or moon-clip, and inertia pulls a poorly crimped bullet forward.

By the time you get to the last chamber, the round has been seen five recoil cycles and the bullet may be completely loose. If you are lucky it will still clear the barrel when fired. If not, it will stick in the barrel.

If your talking one box of ammo, I would dump it.
 

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Foo Foo it if you want

But it is the same principal as an inertia bullet puller. Lots of problems with the new Ruger LCRs in 9mm with aluminum cased ammo. Bullets as loose as yours will come forward even in a heavy gun like a S&W Mod 25.
It is your gun, smoke em if you got em.
 

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Discussion Starter #37
Thanks......the problem is LONG been addressed, answered, and solved. It's not going to fall out in my revolver.

Same principle but NOT the same effect.
 

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It's not defective ammo.
I agree, just crappy process. This is the very reason I only buy ammo that has a defined crimp around the base of the bullet. I'm always loading and unloading my mags on my daily carry gun.
 

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I think this is an issue with YOUR 1911; not the 1911 in general. S&W's quality control on their 1911s is garbage and looks like the angle of your feed ramp is jacked up. Contact them and you'll hear back in a couple weeks, lol
 

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Discussion Starter #40
Thanks but you are QUITE wrong. As I have been dropping brass all over the range with no further issues, the center mass impacts and point of aim are locked in tight.
 
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