1911Forum banner

1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
513 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have been looking for some Federal .45acp 230 gr. Hydroshoks for months now.
I was finally able to grab some Speer 230 gr. Gold Dots. And this was very little.
I know the same company that owns Federal also owns Speer. but what is up with no carry ammo coming to the market.
I really like the Federal Hydro shok as it's the most accurate hollowpoint round I have tried. Even more accurate than the Gold Dots.
Has anybody else switched from Hydroshoks to something else?
Need help!:confused:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
73 Posts
I have been looking for some Federal .45acp 230 gr. Hydroshoks for months now.

Has anybody else switched from Hydroshoks to something else?
Ammunition to Go has 185gr +P Hydra-Shoks on their website. No 230gr now, but they sometimes have it.

I've switched off of Hydra-Shok to HST. ATG has this on occasion as well.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,969 Posts
I really like the Federal Hydro shok as it's the most accurate hollowpoint round I have tried. Even more accurate than the Gold Dots.
Try practicing more. You'll find FMJ and LSWC dramatically beat both of those. "Hydro?" Do you actually buy this much - I mean enough to know what it's actually named?

Frankly, if a maker has been busy equipping troops during a war, I don't hold it against them when I don't see theor products on the shelves. If you do, then that's your beef and I suggest you find a way to deal with wars other than bitching about folks who support the troops and our national efforts. Grandpa never complained when he couldn't buy a '44 Chevy. He just put his head down and ran the ammo train daily from the factory to the shipping depot...

Pardon my rant, but you folks know there's a war on and this entails a few inconveniences to us civilian shooters now, right?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
513 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
On a long shot I stopped at Walmart today and they had Winchester Elite supreme 230 gr. so I grabbed some. I'm good for awhile.

"Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile" :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
416 Posts
Is Federal even still making HydraShoks? I was under the impression that they were going to phase it out altogether with the newer, improved HST. :confused:
I have not heard anything official about Hydra-shocks being discontinued. Many people still like the hydra-shock. As long as they will buy it Federal will make it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,086 Posts
185 gr +P Hydra-Shok and bulk pack 250 rounds for $99.95 of Federal American Eagle 230 gr ball at Ammunition to Go as of Sunday.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,023 Posts
On a long shot I stopped at Walmart today and they had Winchester Elite supreme 230 gr. so I grabbed some. I'm good for awhile.

"Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile" :D
Careful that nut might be wormy! :rofl::rofl::rofl:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
731 Posts
Frankly, if a maker has been busy equipping troops during a war, I don't hold it against them when I don't see theor products on the shelves. If you do, then that's your beef and I suggest you find a way to deal with wars other than bitching about folks who support the troops and our national efforts.
Pardon my rant, but you folks know there's a war on and this entails a few inconveniences to us civilian shooters now, right?
Uhhh, They don't use JHP in the military, friend. Try knowing something about what your talking about before you go off half cocked. :dope:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
416 Posts
Uhhh, They don't use JHP in the military, friend. Try knowing something about what your talking about before you go off half cocked. :dope:
Ammo does not grow on trees. The mfg have been busy making ammo for military contract for the last five years. This means that jhp ammo is not being made as fast as needed.

The ammo shortage started on the Government side of the chain in 2004. The consumer side did not start seeing it until late in 2008. It would have happened even if the Messiah had not run for President. He just sped it along for a few months.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
731 Posts
Ammo does not grow on trees. The mfg have been busy making ammo for military contract for the last five years. This means that jhp ammo is not being made as fast as needed.

The ammo shortage started on the Government side of the chain in 2004. The consumer side did not start seeing it until late in 2008. It would have happened even if the Messiah had not run for President. He just sped it along for a few months.
I understand your point, but I've had no problems finding Federal FMJ at my Walmart. Not that it's on the shelves whenever I walk in, but they get it at least once a week (Federal Champion) and I've managed to get quite a bit of it. I too have noticed the Hydra Shoc is not as available as it used to be. I thought the above poster was implying that they were giving the JHP to the military. Thanks for your input.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
416 Posts
Its just a matter of resource management. Eventually some one will say I'm full of it. The Lake City Plant run by ATK makes the military ammo. This seems to be a popular internet myth.

They have not been able to fill Government contract so other plants have been making ammo for the Military. Winchester makes ammo not only for the US military but hugh contracts for NATO Countries. We also have a small independent munitions plant five located minutes from Winchester. They make specialty stuff for DOD.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,371 Posts
Short term supply chain

Isn't it really the result of the short term supply chain concept that out great business leaders adopted in the eighties. Producing only what's needed in the short term improves the profit margin for everybody. When demand increases, everyone can add on a little extra "due to the shortage". Nobody actually "keeps stock" anymore. It's like the oil industry, right? Artificial or engineered shortages some would say. The actual event that spurs the shortage flywheel is real, but the shortage could have been prevented. Again... where was the ammo shortage when we were spraying bullets all over SE Asia in great quantity for a long time?? JMO.. Ron
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
173 Posts
In answer to the thread, my opinion is that ATK/Federal's commerical sporting line of ammunition is focusing on making FMJ ammunition in all calibers to quickly take advantage of the surge in demand and the potential for short term profits. FMJ = Easy money. We will probably soon see FMJ in all calibers (yes, even .380) widely available. The next rounds to be resupplied will be based on previous sales records. In other words, if Federal has time to make Hydrashoks, and .45ACP is the most in demand, that is what will probably be the first to appear on shelves.

If I were doing regression analysis on the state of the ammunition industry (as a whole) in the USA and the impact of DOD spending on the availability of commercial small arms ammunition, I would say that given a choice between which entity has a greater impact on availability it would look like:

A. United States Department of Defense (US-DOD) annual orders and consumption for US Military use for a service population of roughly 2.2 million active and reserve service members

B. Foreign Military Sales (FMS) by United States OEM's to service various FMS programs and NATO agreements

C. The commercial shooting sports market in the USA, variously estimated at between 25 and 50 million people.

I would have to say that a 20% surge in demand by (C) would have a greater impact than a 50% demand increase by both A + B.

I know from experience that when ATK receives an IDIQ contract for several million rounds of small arms ammunition that may seem like a huge amount to some folks (even me). But checked against the sum total demand of small arms ammunition demand in the USA, thrown in with Canada, Central & South America, plus various other countries, 300 million rounds (which includes all flavors from .22LR up to 20MM) may be chump change when compared against what happens when the USA customer demand shoots through the roof, as it has done in the last 12 months.

Let me say it another way. Lake City, and DOD only has to supply one military with one product against one set of specifications (MILSPEC). All M855 is M855, if made to MILSPEC MIL-C-63989.

ALL the ammunition OEM's, have to supply everything, to everyone, in a methodical and profitable manner.

223 just from Remington comes in a dizzying array of bullet weights and designs. I would argue that 55 grain ball probably takes up the bulk of their production, because its easily the most popular product at this moment.


This strategy chokes production to some extent, to the point that when a large surge in demand happens, the well quickly runs dry, which is precisely what we've seen. It is no coincidence that the first re-fills of the empty shelves in Wal Mart and other sporting goods stores has been the baseline FMJ ammo, like WWB or Remington Yellow Box in various calibers. The specialized stuff is still months away. Has to be.

Given a choice between two contracts, one supplying the military with 5.56 M855 Ball vs. supplying all .223 ammunition to the commercial sporting market in the USA, I would:

A. Take the military contract if I wanted to make money
B. Take the commercial contract if I didn't win the bidding on the military contract.

Demand curves are well known, predictable, & repeatable on the military side of production (to some extent).

It's the variable demand on the commercial ammunition side that has people tearing out what little hair they have left on their heads.

And the final point I keep making is this:

We all heartily agree that demand has increased, but has consumption increased as well? I see folks at every gunshow buying case after case of ammunition. But are they shooting it? Or...are they buying 5 or 10 years worth of supply?

I think there will be a heckeva hangover shortly on the ammunition market. Fire Sales are around the corner.

FWIW.
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Top