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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
At what point in a draw from a holster do you thumb off the safety lever? Is it when it's halfway on it's way up(finger still out of trigger guard) or do you wait until the pistol is on target? I have tried practicing this and have a difficult time not moving the sights off target when thumbing that lever. Am I waiting too long to do this safely or is it an issue where I just need more practice?
 

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Originally posted by Scotty45:
At what point in a draw from a holster do you thumb off the safety lever? Is it when it's halfway on it's way up(finger still out of trigger guard) or do you wait until the pistol is on target? I have tried practicing this and have a difficult time not moving the sights off target when thumbing that lever. Am I waiting too long to do this safely or is it an issue where I just need more practice?
Sounds like you're waiting too long... I wipe the safety on my "Up-Stroke", or when coming out of a low ready, and when going back into a low ready.

Picture this... Hold in a low ready, safety on, and when you begin to move to the ready, you wipe the safety off, as the gun comes to eye level for a flash sight picture.

Once you have your target aquired, you can go to the trigger, if you decide it's time to shoot.
 

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Just like jaydee says. Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot.
 

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I disengage the safety after the pistol has cleared the holster and as the pistol is moving to either being grasped with my support hand or up into a tightly tucked retention position...as dictated by the situation.

If this seems "early" to anyone, I would ask at what point they disengage the safety on their GLOCK? I thought so.

Rosco
 

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I would think it depends on if you know you are going to shoot or not. If you are holding a suspect at gunpoint and he is in the surrender position, you might want to keep it on to protect againt involuntary adrenaline impulses. If you are trying to get your shot off first because he's drawing down on you, wipe it off man wipe!!!!


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George Orwell: "That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
"I would think it depends on if you know you are going to shoot or not. If you are holding a suspect at gunpoint and he is in the surrender position, you might want to keep it on to protect againt involuntary adrenaline impulses. If you are trying to get your shot off first because he's drawing down on you, wipe it off man wipe!!!!"

Good point, Shane45! Love the name, by the way!
 

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I tend to agree with Rosco. One point--the action needs to be consistant. This is not an action you can think your way thru while involved in a confrontation. Do it the same way all of the time, and practice! GLV
 

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If someone presents enough of a threat that you are pointing your pistol at them, then WHY would you want to have your safety engaged? Besides, if you're holding a (for the moment) compliant suspect at gunpoint, the "guard" or "ready" position is probably a better choice. In "guard", the safety is engaged and the trigger finger is straight. The position affords better visibility of the threat and the delay in getting off a shot (as opposed to being pointed in) is negligable.

I would contend that the safety should be disengaged at the same point in the presentation, regardless of of the exact reason for drawing.

Rosco
 

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As previously mentioned, consistency is the key to gunhandling.

There seems to be a belief that the thumb safety somehow affects weapon safety, which it does not. The mind and its control of the trigger finger provide weapon safety.

One should not employ the thumb safety such that it is an encumbrance requiring thought to manipulate in a crisis. This will likely lead to a mistake which could be disastrous.

There are three circumstances from which a shot is normally taken: 1) the full drawstroke to firing, 2) a partial drawstroke and firing from retention, and 3) firing from ready. If thumb safety manipulation is different for any of the three, it invites a mistake.

To be consistent, the safety must be manipulated at the same point in the gunhandling activity -- every time -- so that it does not require thought. The only way to do that, in my opinion, is to disengage the safety as the pistol comes toward level out of the holster. Whether you use the traditional Gunsite drawstroke or the newer approach where the pistol goes through "retention" during presentation, the safety should be off once the pistol has cleared leather and approaches level. If you re-engage the safety or change the safety manipulation when going to "ready", it then requires an additional, non-standard, conscious thought to take the safety off for a shot. If you habitually take the safety off as the sights come to the target, you will have the safety on at the retention position when you may desperately need it off. Either invites a problem, while not increasing weapon safety at all.

It would be better if we were to call that thumb piece something other than a "safety". If we called it a function blocking device, the term would be more descriptive and we would be more likely to handle it properly.

The safety is not related to safety, and there is nothing unsafe about having it off.
If the pistol is out, the safety should be off.

But the finger is off the trigger until the sights are on the target.
 

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Halfway through the draw it gets snicked off. If its out its unlocked, finger outside the TG.

As for the glock, safety is on until brain takes it off. (Brain is safety). Trigger finger is outside of TG.

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Originally posted by Rosco Benson:
I disengage the safety after the pistol has cleared the holster and as the pistol is moving to either being grasped with my support hand or up into a tightly tucked retention position...as dictated by the situation.
Roscoe has it right.. It's exactly the way I was taught and the way I train. IMO it's the most logical and tactically sound method if it becomes necessary to draw the weapon.

If this seems "early" to anyone, I would ask at what point they disengage the safety on their GLOCK? I thought so.
Good point..


Rick



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"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms ... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. ... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." -- Thomas Jefferson
 

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<><> Scotty, you say you have a difficult time not moving the sights off target. Is your thumb on the saftey as you bring the gun up to the point position. Your thumb should be on the saftey when you are sighting your weapon, and remain there. That way the sights should not move off target.

Raspy
 

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In the old "6-count" draw that used to be taught by API/Gunsite, disengaging the safety occurred at step number 3, immediately after clearing the leather and before acheiving a two handed grip. In the "4-count" drawstroke that's being taught nowadays by Gunsite and others, the safety is disengaged at step 3 & 1/2 as the gun is being extended away from the body and toward the threat. Certainly, it should be off by the time you've acquired your sight picture and have placed your finger on the trigger (assuming you intend to shoot). If you're drawing to a ready position, I recall being taught that it didn't matter whether or not the safety was on or off as long as your trigger finger was straight. If you keep it on, then as you begin to raise the gun to eye level the safety should "stay behind," meaning that you should disengage it as soon as you begin upward movement. Once you've attained a sight picture, the only thing you should have to concern yourself with is manipulating the trigger.
 

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Jeff Cooper teaches the following steps in the drawstroke-
1-Grip the pistol with a firing grip,
2-clear the pistol from the holster
3-click off the safety
4-slap; the sound of your hands meeting
5-press the trigger.
simple, why overthink everything?

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Step 1, place hand on gun grip and bring off hand to center of chest
Step 2, extract gun and rotate to horizontal above the leather - safety comes off during rotation. At this point, gun is pointed toward target and will remain so until threat is no longer a problem
Step 3, meet with off hand at center of chest
Step 4, thrust gun forward and take up trigger slack
Step 5, pull trigger, repeat as necessary

I find that the easiest time and the best time to take off the safety is when the gun rotates to horizontal after clearning the leather, but still just above the holster. By that time, my off hand at at the center of my chest, awaiting the gun hand to bring the gun to it for a two-handed grip. The significance here is that I can shoot from the hip, immediately, and I can either use my off hand to receive the gun or use it for any other immediate task such as parrying blows, opening doors, picking up car keys, etc. I can shoot at any point as the gun travels to meet the off hand. I can shoot at any point as the gun is thrust forward. Of course, the finger stays off the trigger until ready to fire.
 

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I've been taught pretty much the way Double Naught described the drawstroke. I disengage the safety at step 2 and train that way. Basically, if the gun is coming up to target, it's going to be off safe.
 

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I wipe the safety once my muzzle rotates up toward the target (be it close in or ready to extend out). It's kind of a secondary point really. Gun doesn't go off 'til the trigger is pulled, so find the spot you're most comfortable with (preferably somewhere between clearing leather and getting roughly on target plane) and drill it in with lots of practice.
 
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