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Discussion Starter #1
I fired my Springfield Mil-Spec for the first time yesterday, and everything went well except for a minor incident.

I fired off 4 magazines without a problem. Then, after loading the 5th magazine, I pressed the slide release button (as I had done with the previous magazines). The slide got stuck half way, and a round was stuck half-way in the chamber. After racking the slide a bit and ejecting the stuck round, I was back in order.

This happened a second time, for the 6th magazine. So when I got to magazine #7, I decided not to use the slide release button, and instead pulled the slide back by hand and let it snap forward. This worked perfectly, and I loaded the remaining magazines that way.

So, my question is: when should I use/not use the slide release button? I know I should never let the slide slam on an empty chamber. Is there something wrong with my 1911 here, or should I always release the slide by hand?

Thanks.

By the way, I was using Springfield 7-round mags with PMC 230-grain FMJ ammo.

[This message has been edited by GI-45 (edited 11-04-2001).]
 

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Modern Police Training says to not use the slide stop/release lever, but pull the slide to the rear and release it during your "run to empty" reloads.

The reasoning is that large, "gross motor functions" - like pulling back a slide - are easier to accomplish than hitting a little button.

But a more important benefit is that by pulling back the slide, you give it a little more "run" (and a little more spring compression) to load the first round. It seems to be working for you, anyway.

Some of the Springfields and Kimbers do improve after a breakin period of 500-1000 rounds. Keep shooting it, and report back!

Warmly, Col. Colt

"Beware of Counterfeits & Patent Infringements"
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Modern Police Training says to not use the slide stop/release lever, but pull the slide to the rear and release it during your "run to empty" reloads.
Thanks, Col. Colt.

So when should the slide release button be used? Or do I simply need to break in the gun first? I was thinking of using a heavier recoil spring (18.5 lb.); would that help?
 

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The gun should load a round from slide lock by using the slide release. If it doesn't after several 100 rounds and correct lubrication, it needs work by the factory. You should be able to do it with the standard weight spring.

I shoot a lot of IDPA and my reloads are automatic using the slide release. I couldn't imagine sling shoting the slide to release it. The Modern Police Training should emphasize more shooting, moving and reloading. The lack of fine motor skills I don't believe would apply to 1000's of repetions of reloads. It would be automatic just like focusing on the front sight. If you lose fine motor skills, wouldn't that mean you won't be able to hold the gun on target while you shoot? That is a pretty fine motor skill.

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"Even the most normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and begin slitting throats"
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One negative aspect of using the slide lock/release lever to release the slide is unecessary wear on the lever and the slide, as it is held in the notch by recoil spring tension. This was told to me by a respected custom gun manufacturer.
 

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Originally posted by Col. Colt:
Modern Police Training says to not use the slide stop/release lever, but pull the slide to the rear and release it during your "run to empty" reloads.
No it doesn't

FBI and DEA are two big examples of agencies that DO NOT train with the slingshot method. They actually purchase their Glocks with an extended slide release for the exact purpose of chambering rounds.

Which department do you know of that teaches officers to use the slingshot method?



[This message has been edited by James P (edited 11-05-2001).]
 

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Originally posted by FB3:
One negative aspect of using the slide lock/release lever to release the slide is unecessary wear on the lever and the slide, as it is held in the notch by recoil spring tension. This was told to me by a respected custom gun manufacturer.
No it's not.

Back to the FBI/DEA example. They issue Glocks that have a fairly cheap stamped metal release. I don't see how you are going to hurt that thick release on the 1911?? Far more damage would occur (if it did occur) during the impact when the slide stop/release caught the slide in its forward motion upon empty.



[This message has been edited by James P (edited 11-05-2001).]
 

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Originally posted by GI-45:
So when should the slide release button be used? Or do I simply need to break in the gun first? I was thinking of using a heavier recoil spring (18.5 lb.); would that help?
It should be used whenever you want to release the slide to load a round. That is why it is there. If your gun won't work properly, it needs to be fixed (as someone mentioned previously). Installing a heavier spring will only mask the problem at best and may result in bullet setback which COULD result in excessive pressure.

Try some different magazines and make sure the rounds you are using are of the correct length and of good manufacture. If that doesn't fix if then I would take it to a reputable smith or send it back to the factory.
 

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James P is absolutely correct!

The slide release should chamber a round regardless of whether it is the first, 2nd. 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, or 8th round.

If I had a "Customm Gun Manufacturer" tell me something like this, I would find another maker/ smith. Most of these guys are not shooters. They're too busy building $1500 guns that don't shoot. I am very tired of these so called "Experts" telling people to break in their guns so they work right. Poppycock!!!

I have owned guns by Don Fischer of Denver that would shoot 2.5" at 50 yards (yes 50, not 25) and run from day one past the 30,000 round level with zero malfunctions! If it is a quality job, it will run right out of the box from the gunsmith. It's their job to "Break it in"!

As far as Police Training Manuals go...Come on! You might as well accept PPC as a "Practical" training format. No flame intended.

Sorry to be aggressive about this, but take it from a "Shooter" who was nationally ranked in IPSC in the early 80's,and has fired well over 100,000 rounds and has done every reload with the slide release on 3 different guns over 20 years and never broken any part as a result and never had the described malfunction.....the slide release is to be used to "Release the Slide".

If your gun won't do this without malfunction you have a few options.

1. If you want to try some simple tricks, I would suggest looking at the feed ramp first and polish it until it is "Mirror Bright" with a Dremmel tool and rouge.

2. Also try a Wilson Magazine who's design fights the tendancy for the first round in a full Mag to "Nose Dive".

3. An 18.5 pound spring from Wolff with matching firing pin spring would help as well. Make sure you get the heavier weight firing pin spring so you don't risk "Slam Fires" (Doubling or full auto)! If none of this works...send it back to the factory.

Also in Mil Spec. gun (which you said this is), only use "HardBall" ammo. That is the only ammo type that the gun was designed for.

If you "Ramp and Throat" the gun, other types of bullets should function as well.

If this doesn't fix it, the angle of the feed ramp or the throat of the barrel need attention from the factory on a new gun.

Using the slide release is the quickest, safest and easiest way to drop the slide on a loaded magazine.

Just my .02 cents worth.



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ACK

"Make the First Shot Count"!
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Lots of great advice here. Thanks guys.
 

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The feed jam you describe can be fixed by:

1) Polishing the feed ramp.

2) Rounding the feed lip edges on the magazine to reduce drag on the brass.
 

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Check extractor tension too.Along with a proper feed ramp and polish,make sure the edge at the ramp and chamber isn't a sharp edge,it should be slightly radiused.
 

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Like the other guys said, that isn't modern police training. Our department here in Honolulu, Hawaii doesn't train to sling shot. In fact, they have never even spoke about the sling shot method except when clearing a malfunction after the tap-rack-bang drill doesn't work.

Oh...back to the topic, when I first bought my kimber CC, it would do the exact same thing. I would just "tap" the mag in and it would finish chambering the round. My pistol doesn't do that anymore. I have put a little over 1000 rnds into it.
 

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To clarify my post above, the advice that I received did not have anything to do with reliability, only that there was a possibility of wearing/scuffing the slide release and slide. Just cosmetic considerations.
 

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Originally posted by FB3:
To clarify my post above, the advice that I received did not have anything to do with reliability, only that there was a possibility of wearing/scuffing the slide release and slide. Just cosmetic considerations.
The "scuffing" is going to happen through normal use anyway. The top is going to be rubbed shiny by spring pressure pushing it up against the slide, the back is going to get shiny from the slide hitting it when locking open, and the thumb area will get shiny from taking it in and out of the holster and any other contact. Besides, if you use the gun, other things will start scuffing or losing blue noticeably before the slide stop.

It was meant to shoot and look used. Get a shiny collectable Colt or other non mil spec gun if you want something pretty to look at. Mil specs need a little character (my opinion).
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Thanks. I'll look him up.
 

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GI-45,

The State Patrol in Ohio teaches the "sling shot" method. This is in conjunction with reload drills. The rear of the slide is grasped with the weak hand and the pistol is forced or "punched" forward at the intended target. Fine motor skills are lost or are hampered by the adrenaline rush occuring in a fire fight or high stress situation. Doing the "sling shot" method works best in getting back on target quickest also since you don't have to adjust your shooting hand to reach for the slide release. Use it if it works for you.....FWIW....Bob
 
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