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Discussion Starter #1
how you guys doin? i'm a new guy and this is my first thread. i hope you guys can help me out on my question.
i love wilson combat pistols (especially the SS Protector),but there's a problem. i can't wait 4 to 6 months to recieve the pistol. so can someone help me chose which pistol is best.
first choice is the kimber tactical custom 2. second choice is the sig sauer p220 two-tone. i've heard great reviews for the sig,but it ain't no 1911. as for the kimber,i read in alot of threads how kimber screwed up with the series 2 pistols,mostly concerning the external extractor.
so i hope someone can school me on which burner to cop. thank you for the help. eazy,Angel of Death.
 

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Colt has improved their quality greatly in the past few years. I would recommend the new Colt 70 Series. I have heard a lot of good things about it. Kimber seems to be struggling with QC and Sig is a good gun but it ain't no 1911.
 

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Mmmm.....Angel of Death.......Michigan.....

"Death is not a thing to be afraid of, life is......."

Dr. Jack, is that you?
 

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I can recomend the Kimber TCII if you want to buy a gun off the shelf. Mine has been reliable. But like mentioned above, if you want a Wilson then get one, a used one would hold you over and make a nice backup for your new one. Check out Guns Galore in Fenton for a used one, they have a lot of guns. I looked at a real nice used Wilson KZ there.
 

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A super tough question that will get you so many varied replies that it will only serve to make your decision worse! But you asked, so here goes:

If you really like the Wilson's then I'd wait the 4 to 6 months or better yet, as said in an earlier post, buy a like-new used one and save yourself some money.

After that, just about anything off the shelf these days from the major manufacturers are great pistols. I've shot them all, except the new Colts, and they are great guns.

I like the Kimber's the most. Although you'll hear tons of whining about them here it's mostly from the disgruntled few with nothing better to do, many who do not even own them. Every brand's section you go to will have somebody that is unhappy with their gun. There seems to be more on Kimbers because Kimber sells more guns. What you don't hear is the huge amount of happy owners because we're all out shooting our Kimbers!

The predominate whining about Kimber's series II safety system is mostly from people just looking for a reason to hate Kimber. I have yet to see a single actual post in the past 3 years that details an actual series II failure so don't let that stop you. The series II system is easily defeated if you don't like it by installing a different firing pin.

Here's my take: I like the Kimbers. Alot of bang for the buck and the Tactical line is great. As for the whining about the external extractors, it's just that - whining. The Wilson KZ-45 uses them along with just about every other semi-auto manufacterer out there. Haven't heard a single thing about extraction problems from a new Kimber yet. Just more 'purist' crap. If you're a purist then buy the new Colt military reissues.

The SA's are nice and generally cheaper and people rave about their customer service - usually. You'll get the same amount of people whining about some aspect of them. I've done the polls!

As for Colts, I've owned five and they all sucked compared to the offerings of the previously mentioned two. But, like I said, I haven't seen nor shot the new ones. I also don't buy Harley Davidsons because it's the only 'real' motorcycle. (Another argument, I know, but the parallels are just too similar).

Then of course there's the Dan Wessons, S&W and now Sig is making a 1911. If you can't wait for the Wilson then go to a gun store that has a bunch and fondle them all. One of them will 'speak' to you. That's your new gun!

The quest is have the fun. Have a blast, pun intended.

Methos
 

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Discussion Starter #7
i appreciate all the help you guys have given me so far. as for buying a used wilson,well i'm one of those picky ppl,even if it's made by the best i gotta have it NIB.
i might just cop the kimber ,but maybe after reading a few more replys.
thank you again,Angel of Death.
 

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I'm with Methos on this one. Kimber is no more "beyond reproach" than any other company, but (puts on Nomex suit) much of the recent resurgence of the 1911's popularity is owed to them, and most (if not all) the other companies got quite a wake-up call when Kimber hit the scene; the same "improve your product, or go out of business" awakening Detroit got back in the late 70's.

No doubt Kimber has gone through some growing pains, but compare nearly any other manufacturer's production 1911 of today to what they were offering before Kimber came onto the scene, and you will notice most of them are turning out higher quality and/or more features than before. In fact, many either did not exist, or at least did not produce 1911's, prior to Kimber paving the way for the resurrection of the 1911 (perhaps a bit strong of a term, but hopefully somebody else here remembers being ridiculed for our allegiance to our "antiquated" sidearms).

Personally, I hope that all the manufacturers keep trying to "one-up" each other, especially in quality and customer service. There's plenty of business for all of them, and as long as none become the only game in town, none of them will be an absolute poor choice.

Two parting shots:

1) Regarding Series 2, external extractors, or any other variation from the original... no one really knows what Mr. Browning might have done with his design, were he alive today. Innovative as he was, I doubt he would have comepletely rested in his laurels for nearly a century without some amount of tinkering with the design.

2) There is no shame in owning a P220, either.


Oops... sorry about the novel...
 

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1) Regarding Series 2, external extractors, or any other variation from the original... no one really knows what Mr. Browning might have done with his design, were he alive today.
The point is he had used the external extractor in several pistols before he designed the 1911. The internal extractor was what he decided to design and go with. Now if the internal was problematic he most likely would have changed it before his death, but it had performed well for the 15 years before he died. Now 90+ years later makers are redesigning a fully functioning part to be replaced with several smaller ones.
 

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The direct ancestor to the 1911, the 1905 .45 ACP pistol, DID originally have an external extractor, and was very close in design to the 1903 .32 and .38 autos. The internal extractor was an Army redesign requirement, amongst others, that led to the Gov't Model we know today. Note that his last (and in his hands incomplete) design, the Hi- Power, reverted to the external extractor. Why didn't he go back and change the extractor on the 1911? Why would he even bother, after cashing in on it with a huge government contract?

External extraxtors have been working well on several gen erations of auto pistols, so get over it guys. Buy what you want to of good reliable reputation Angel, and don't let narrow thinking cloud your judgement.
 

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Angel, I don't have broad experience with Sig 220 so excuse me if I'm misinformed. But, it seems to me that a more basic question is whether you will prefer shooting a single action 1911 (of any variety) with it's light crisp trigger on every shot or if you will be comfortable with the action of a Sig? I only own one Sig, a p232 that is double action/single action. It's a great little pistol but I will probably never like the transition from shooting the first shot double action with a long, hard(er) trigger pull to subsequent shots a light, short single action with a long trigger take up.

I am only assuming the Sig you are interested in is of the same design platform, but if it is I'd build by decision around what action I like shooting the most. Shoot both and then decide.

I own a Kimber Series I, a Glock, a sig, and a couple of S & W wheel guns. None of the other triggers compare to the Sig and I don't shoot any of the others as well as I shoot the Kimber. Your mileage may vary.

RJ
 

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Wilson

If you want a Wilson, get a Wilson. There really isn't a comparison in quality between any of the other pistols you mentioned. Read the posts on this forum and you will see that Wilson, Baer, and a select few others are in a class by themselves.

Regarding "gotta have it NIB", wouldn't you think that anyone who spends over $2000 for a pistol is going to treat it like his first date? A handgun is a tool. It's meant to be used. And the 1911 can and should look like new after literally thousands of rounds.

Your posts sound like you've been reading too many Guns and Ammo magazines and now you're in a big hurry to get a blaster and make holes in things. Take your time. Do your homework. Learn from the experience of your friends on this forum. Then, get what you really want. But above all, buy the best quality you can afford. You won't appreciate what a difference in quality you're getting till you've put a few thousand rounds through it yourself. But then you will.

Wilson.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
i can't thank you guys enough for your help on this subject. after reading the more replys that were sent in, i think i know the answer.
i might just go for the used wilson,either the CQB or if i'm lucky enough a SS PROTECTOR.
again i thank you guys and this great forum for the help it has supplied me with. regards,Angel of Death.
 

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NIB CQB

NIB CQB's are available from about $1600 up on the net, and I just got mine from a dealer for $1750. Ordered it one day, picked it up the next.
 

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Angel

Sorry about the rant, sir. I missed your "decision made" post while composing my "novel". If you can pull-off the Wilson, you will no doubt be pleased. Regardless of which you buy first, you'll probably be adding others in the future ;) .

Majic

I didn't mean to imply there was anything wrong with the internal extractor (I prefer them on a 1911, myself). However, as Zenmeister alluded, much of what became known as the 1911 actually came from Army Ordanace, not Mr. Browning himself.
I do not say that in disrespect; there is no question as to the remarkable genius of JMB.

But, his other great talent seems to get little or no mention- that being his phenominal ability to combine that genius with unwavering customer service. He didn't seem to have gone to his prospective clients with his latest idea, expecting them to cut him a check, but repeatedly got their feedback and reworked his designs until they got what they were asking for.

By my remark which you quoted, I simply meant (in the humblest of opinions) that I didn't think he would be as offended to variations of his masterpiece as some of his disciples.

Then again, I could be wrong...
 

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The SS Protector is worth the wait. Best gun I have ever owned.
 

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There's a store around here that has Wilsons (and Browns among others) on the shelf. If you wanted one real bad, they might be willing to sell it by mail. PM me for their contact info if you're that desperate :D

Along the same lines, there may be a shop in your area that stocks premium 1911s that you may not know about.
 
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