1911Forum banner

41 - 60 of 90 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,892 Posts
3% carrying would be a very high number. I suspect the real number is below 1%.

IMHO anyone who carries a magazine fed handgun and doesn't carry a spare mag is a fool. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.
Deliberately: left a lot of fudge factor to make sure “5%” does include all the CCWers. In the engineering world, we allow for ignorance using a more-or-less common 2.5x of the portion that is known; usually that’s enough. And there’s one State, IIRC, that had a 3% of eligible Citizens either holding a CCW license or responding “Yes” to polling regarding carrying most of the time. The number impressed me ... apparently the metric counted not so much.

As previously written on 1911forum many times:

- since a previously reliable magazine‘s floor-plate folded under recoil, spilling the loads on the ground: a spare magazine

- since a previously reliable firearm’s trigger suddenly stopped resetting: a spare trigger (already installed)

Two is one; one is none. Taught me, IIRC, by a protoge’ who went on to become a U.S. Navy S.E.A.L. and came back, after separating, to involve me in serious defensive firearm training. A whopping case of casting your bread on the water. However, I leave to each their own: don’t like being called names for carrying a spare; so won’t do the same to somebody whose judgement is that a J-frame and no re-loads is enough. They’re probably right.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
965 Posts
3% of CCW holders carry most of the time.

How many people hold a CCW??

Texas has a population of over 30 million. We'll use 30 million as a nice round number. As of 12-31-20 there were 1,626,242 LTC holders. That's 5.4% of the population. If 3% of those carry all the time then there are 48,787 that are armed. That's 0.16% of people armed at any given time. In other words, 1.6 in 1000.

Figure the local Walmart has 500 customers in it at a given time. Chances are ONE person is armed.

Now having been in many Walmart stores here in Texas I can tell you that there's a lot more than one person that's carrying in the store at a given time. It's rare I don't see someone open carrying. How many are carrying concealed?

 
  • Like
Reactions: Levian

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,983 Posts
I guess im curious what LE drills or training scenarios are included that are "shoot, shoot, shoot some more" that aren't coming from youtube operators lol
Assuming, as I am, that police are 'trained', and seeing the outcome of numerous involved shootings, I have to infer that there's a reliance on ammo availability flowing freely.

Just one case in point.... you may recall this one from a while back:

Amadou Diallo

Given that the backstop in this case was a building - and being in NY, I'll surmise brick, the extra 22 rounds (aside from the 19 that hit) were confined. However, flip that around and have the backstop be other buildings and cars, and it could have been an entirely different story. This is just one. I watched another incident in a park up north recently (not 44 rounds fired, but still). Plus, remember the running car battle up a busy street from a couple of years ago that we discussed here extensively? Etc., etc. I believe it's by the grace of God that there isn't more collateral damage. And I'm not framing this as solely a law enforcement issue. I think subconscious reliance (through ingrained training) on a large, available ammo supply could be a problem for across the board. Again, thank Heaven these incidents are few and far between. The idiots on youtube are a whole different story, and worthy of a separate discussion.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,815 Posts
The problem is, you won't be so steady or collected during the real thing, so your hits will not all be in the 'A" zone. If your focus is on fire and fire some more, where will all that lead end up?
Methinks it is a false dichotomy, HJ. What I see in competition, at least on my level, is shooters addressing a huge A zone in a "what gives the best hit factor", which sometimes means a quick C, especially with the major.
What I see in good classes are half A zone or B-8 repair center for body and 3x5 for head. Shoot as many but one miss is fail. As long as people dont go instructors who call a D zone lucky miss a "combat effective" hit, I see no prob with teaching shooting a bunch of rounds fast.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Levian

·
Registered
Joined
·
50 Posts
We can point out scenarios to make any point we want to and I do get what you're saying. In all my LE training, never are there any scenarios where we just do mag dumps. We train recoil management, breaking training habits (2 to the chest 1 to the head) by mixing shot counts up, adding in thinking drills, training tac reloads and slide lock reloads, malfunctions, and even thinking drill that require you to decide between 3 targets which one to shoot or dont shoot at all given the direction given to you by the instructor and the information provided on the targets themselves. We have never shot more than 6 rounds consecutively, no matter which department I've shot with.

What I will say, is things change dramatically when the target is actually shooting back at you. Thank god I've never been in a shooting, but I am close to those who have, and there is not a lot of training that can actually compare. Cops aren't MARSOC or SEALS, we aren't trained to kill people on a daily basis. In over 350 million police-citizen contacts every year, there are around 1,000 lethal use of force incidents (thats 0.00029% of all contacts, infinitesimally small chances that a cop on a given day will be engaged in a shooting). Given that, without being immersed in the world of combat continuously, cops are always on the reactionary and stress changes things. I have a hard time quarterbacking another officer based on how many shots he or she took trying to win the fight. Id say the fact that there aren't bystander incidents in hrdly any of these scenarios shows that at least some level of training is kicking in to make sure targets are being identified correctly and we are aware of what's behind our target.

Just my .02, for what it's worth.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,983 Posts
Methinks it is a false dichotomy, HJ. What I see in competition, at least on my level, is shooters addressing a huge A zone in a "what gives the best hit factor", which sometimes means a quick C, especially with the major.
What I see in good classes are half A zone or B-8 repair center for body and 3x5 for head. Shoot as many but one miss is fail. As long as people dont go instructors who call a D zone lucky miss a "combat effective" hit, I see no prob with teaching shooting a bunch of rounds fast.
The circles we operate in may be the wildcard here. Competitors are many. Truly good shooters are few. As I've said before, competition isn't training, but it is practice, and that practice can instill very, very bad habits. For every 'Imperial Master Poobah' shooter, there are legions of not so 'Imperial Poobah' shooters. Likewise, there are many who are not dedicated to regular and extensive quality training - and let's face it, not all training is equal, or remotely beneficial. One of the benefits of running matches, rather than just shooting in them, is that you see individual performance, up close over time. I've seen some who have progressed tremendously over the years. I've seen others that couldn't hit the same barn today that they were trying to hit 10 years ago, yet, rounds counts flying continue increasing. Such a person increases the risk of collateral damage should a situation ever arise. All I'm saying is that it's a function of more rounds on hand. With 17 or 21 or whatever, the response will likely be different than with 5 or 6 - for the regular Joe, that is.

We do a lot of 'choir preaching' on this forum because we're all deeply involved in the hobby/sport, and dedicated to improvement. We are not the rule - we are the exception.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,448 Posts
What I will say, is things change dramatically when the target is actually shooting back at you.
I think this is a subjective opinion. There are some individuals that can remain highly focused and cool under fire.....while others may get so stressed they forget their training. I think I remember reading a long time ago, that in a squad of five soldiers in battle, only one out of five would be able to successfully return fire, while others would hunker down in their fox holes.....

I think it is important to constantly train to keep you muscle memory sharp. I also believe if a person carries concealed, they should use the gun they shoot best, regardless of the cost of the weapon..... A $300 pistol is useless if you don't survive a gun fight, but a high quality weapon that is accurate and reliable may save your life. Also, use the most powerful ammunition that allows you to still shoot fast and accurately. Two hits to center mass with a JHP 9mm round is better than a miss with a .44 magnum.....

Personally, I carry 9mm and larger calibers, but like to use hot loaded .38 super JHP bullets for self defense..... IMHO, those that carry anything less than a 9mm, have to have a solid central nervous system hit to stop a threat sooner than later...... In a gunfight, it is best to "bring enough gun" so you may stop the threat as quickly as possible. A 25acp, 32acp, and the .380 are convenient to slip into a pocket, but may not do the job in a life and death situation.....to each their own......
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,983 Posts
I think this is a subjective opinion. There are some individuals that can remain highly focused and cool under fire.....while others may get so stressed they forget their training. I think I remember reading a long time ago, that in a squad of five soldiers in battle, only one out of five would be able to successfully return fire, while others would hunker down in their fox holes.....

.......
The book is called:
"On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society" by Grossman. It's a fascinating study. Well worth reading.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,448 Posts
Not all people react to a "near death experience" the same way as compared to others. Understanding the "fight or flight" syndrome implies some people may fight, while others may run. That is why some people are said to be "very cool under pressure." Under extreme pressure, some people will freeze "like a deer in the headlights!" In addition, some people have faster reaction times in dangerous situations than others. I believe I have faster reaction times than others my age. I have escaped serious vehicle accidents by my quick reactions and always looking for a "way to escape!" At one time, I held a sales position that warranted a great deal of "windshield time" and I was putting about 60K business miles a year on my car. Fortunately for me, I have never had an accident that was my fault, and currently, I haven't had a motor vehicle accident or moving violation in over 35 years......insurance companies like me!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,498 Posts
It only takes a split second for an idiot to change your life.
I prefer to not give them the chance!
I have always been hyper aware of my surroundings and have been told that I can be irritatingly vocal about what is about to happen next. I usually start the conversation by saying “watch this dumb S#!t”. I am usually right in my forecast.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
I collect 1911's, or at least I have a shelf in the safe dedicated to them. Also have polymer weapons as well. Friend at the local range once told me something about the difference:

"If you can ruin it with a cigarette lighter, is it really a gun?" Good question, I guess, somewhat in jest, but a good question none the less.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
It only takes a split second for an idiot to change your life.
I prefer to not give them the chance!
I have always been hyper aware of my surroundings and have been told that I can be irritatingly vocal about what is about to happen next. I usually start the conversation by saying “watch this dumb S#!t”. I am usually right in my forecast.
Condition yourself for the unexpected. All those that are in a war zone get that way pretty quick.
Reminds me of a sniper in the Vietnam jungle that was running back to his unit and suddenly encountered three VC face to face on the trail.
Did he drop his rifle and throw his hands up ? Hell no
He used the 45 he was carrying in his right hand and eliminated all three.

I'm in my 70's plus now. Seen a lot of stuff. I'm never surprised to see more.
Instead of wasting time thinking or saying, " Oh S**T ! ", immediately do something smart.

PS: I would appreciate being reminded of the name of the above mentioned sniper, thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
517 Posts
Holy cow! The amount of BS being slung by all the “Tacti-Cool Commandos in their OWN minds” throughout this thread is HILARIOUS! I think some of you are reading your Soldier of Fortune magazines a little too much....fantasizing about conquering evil with your TRUSTY 1911 GI!
LOL! :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
 
  • Like
Reactions: jr24

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,338 Posts
"If you can ruin it with a cigarette lighter, is it really a gun?" Good question, I guess, somewhat in jest, but a good question none the less.
Hmm, I wonder how many steel Japanese Nambu's and German P-38's became unsafe to fire (heat treatment wise) after taking a nice squirt from an American flamethrower?


Sent from my K00C using Tapatalk
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,892 Posts
I guess we could bring up a J Frame 357 with no re-loads vs the 380 with an extra mag.
At least the J will put holes in a few things....🙂
As “Major” Boothroyd says: “... the cylinder holds only five cartridges. But by the time they're gone, somebody's been killed.”
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
From the time I was 7-22 years of age, the only handgun I had ever shot was a Colt National Match 1911 that belonged to my dad. Though, I own plenty of polymer guns, HK, Sig, M&P, I even own a first generation Glock 19, I carry a 1911. I do carry two 10 round WC mags as spares. I have never had an issue with these mags feeding Gold Dot 230gr or Golden Saber 230gr bullets. If I have jeans or long pants on, I carry a Sig P365 SAS in an ankle holster.

I learned shot placement as a kid, when you have a Marksman BB gun that you have to cock before each shot, accuracy was king during our bb gun fights.

611948
 
41 - 60 of 90 Posts
Top