If you're still talking about the military, the quality of the trigger is way, way, way down the list of priorities for a military.Example: The M9's trigger/manual of arms SUCKS compared to handling a 1911. [snip]
Slim, handy, correct ergonomic grip angle, and unmatched trigger for a much more likely first round hit - the 1911 is still the best fighting handgun - unless you MISS A LOT..... Then you should consider a high cap 2011.... Those of you who are really concerned about crowds - keep an M4 at hand in the cabin - and you will notice at all of the riot shootings - when the first two or three rounds go off, everybody runs....CC
I think the biggest problem is generational. At 50 I'm at the tail end of the generations who remember when the .45 was still the standard-issue handgun of the US military. Guys half my age grew up in the Glock era, and remember the 1911 as something they saw in old war movies or what their dad or grandpa kept in a cigar box next to the bed. So naturally they're going to dismiss it as an old or outdated design, because to them it's as old as a Luger or Broomhandle is to us older guys.
What is the highest confirmed round count in combat use of a 1911.? Even being generous and saying 100 rounds at what point of testing does a 3500 or 6000 rounds without failure become statistically insignificant or meaningless?
3,500 MRBF meant the average number of rounds between malfunctions. The old 6,000 round figure that was reached during the original tests in March 1911 was the number of rounds it went without actually breaking down. Back then you were lucky if you could get any handgun to fire that many rounds without needing a trip back to the armorer's bench. Both the Colt and Savage pistols tested were cleaned and inspected every 100 rounds*. The Colt never failed, but the Savage failed numerous times and by the end of the tests it had suffered several cracked and broken parts and was no longer functioning well.And that early 1980's test used well used M1911s - the newest of which dated to 1945. Is that a fair comparison to brand new, massaged, company provided test guns? As I recall, the original M1911s made 6,000 rounds without failure. Why did the stat change? Age and use.
Given the improvements in metallurgy and heat-treatment since 1945 , and adhering to original dimensions and tolerancing , I reckon that 6000rd figure should be bumped up a bit in a quality modern manufacture 1911 , no?And how many civilians (non-competition shooters) will ever get to 3,500 rounds through each of their multiple carry guns? How often do you hear of which gun is currently in the "Carry Rotation"? How many people here only have ONE 1911?
I know many of us here have fired a lot more rounds than that - but all through only ONE gun? I have multiple 1911s - the only ones I know greatly exceeding that round count are my competition guns.
And that early 1980's test used well used M1911s - the newest of which dated to 1945. Is that a fair comparison to brand new, massaged, company provided test guns? As I recall, the original M1911s made 6,000 rounds without failure. Why did the stat change? Age and use.
Sort-of.Maybe it’s due to the increase in the gay population?
The biggest demographic group for 1911s is gray hairs. Nobody under 50 watched John Wayne come over that burm with his 1911 in hand. Hell, maybe 60. Then you gotta spend a grand to get a decent one and they need some tuning. So you either have to get a custom or boutique $3k 1911 or have a gunsmith on retainer...or learn to work on 1911s.I guess this is a semi-rhetorical question. I know the major objections, which I have listed below with my thoughts on each. I just don't understand the hate towards the 1911 for CCW and how far people go to belittle anyone who does.
I recently posted in a regional forum looking for advice on the best carry 1911 that is compliant in my state. You can't imagine how many snarky replies I received. Why would you carry a 1911, bad choice, capacity, etc., etc.
Folks make a huge issue of the manual safety on the 1911. To me, it is a training issue. If you commit to only carry single action autos, this becomes fairly ingrained and automatic to a point. Now, I thankfully have never been in a situation where I have had to draw a firearm so I don't know what will happen under stress, but my hope is that with consistent training it wouldn't be an issue God forbid.
This one, especially for me, is a non-issue. My state restricts us to 10 round magazines. I carry a commander 1911 in 9mm which gives me 10+1. I feel that this would be adequate for most people regardless of your state and local laws. None of us go looking for trouble or will likely be in a sustained gun fight. I can understand objections from LEO's or military personnel, but for civilians, I just don't think this is a big issue.
Ok, I can understand this objection as I have owned a 1911 or two that wasn't 100%, but I think reliable models are out there or they can be made reliable with the help of a qualified 1911 smith. No, they will never be Glocks or M&P's in this regard, but I think with a little care and attention, they can be reliable enough for CCW.
What do you guys think?