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Discussion Starter #1
What's the "standard" mil-spec got that the GI version ain't got??

Is it a ton of cast parts, MIM parts, or something about the frame, place of manufacture (theyre all IMBEL frames & slides from Brazil aren't they??) I know the first GI models that came out had the old style squared off frontstrap (grip) and dustcover, but theyre using the regular/newer frame for them now aren't they? Is there handfitting attention being given to the std model and not the GI??

We're talking about almost $100 difference and that's at the extreme low end of the 1911 spectrum, so there's got to be something. "You get what you pay for" - so what am I getting if I get the std. mil-spec? 3 dot sights and a lowered ejection port might be worth something to the customer, but shouldn't cost more than a few pennies more to manufacture.

:confused: :confused:
 

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Good question. If anything, I'm surprised that they don't charge MORE for the WWII model than the standard Mil-Spec, since there are many WWII buffs (such as me) that would be willing to pay more for the historic look. After all, Colt charges nearly $1,000 for their repro WWI and WWII models, and these have absolutely no "frills" at all (lowered ports, better sights, etc.).

Maybe I should shut up before Springfield gets any ideas. :D

EDIT: That is not to say that the Springfield WWII model is in the same class as the Colt repros in terms of historical authenticity, however. But they do seem to be pretty expensive for plain jane, stock 1911s.
 

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I can't figure it out either, but they take fewer machining and finish operations than a regular "MIL-SPEC" and fewer still than a "Loaded". I was beginning to suspect the frame and slide might be cast, so I called today, and Springfield assured me that they are forged. They referred me to the hanging tag that came on the trigger guard, citing that it specified the steel type. To be honest I never read it, and now I realize I've lost it so I can't call their bluff =) But I think these are by far the best deal going in a 1911.
 

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Maybe someone in there marketing division told them that people would not like the blued barrel and bushings, the high ejection port and low profile sights, the lanyard mainspring housing and unbeveled magwell...... oh and no one will want those brown plastic grips, may as well throw them in too :D



Thanks Springfield ;) .
 

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I was amazed at the price difference myself.

The hang tag does specify forged steel.

I love mine - I got certainly more than I paid for.
 

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It is a curious price point. When they first came out, I assumed it was a move to liquidate the blocky frames. Now it doesn't make sense. I don't think it will last forever........... I might have to buy another one!

I never realized a plastic box was that expensive.........:p
 

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I have to wonder if it's an attempt to corner the intermediate market and put out a pistol that's competitive against some of the el-cheapo 1911s.

Either that or the Mil-Spec standard changes cost a lot more than I thought at the manufacturing level.
 

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Sample prices to do the modifications (from http://www.apwcogan.com/1911_colt prices.htm ):

22.00 Lower Ejection Port
27.00 Flare Ejection Port
59.00 Funneling Mag. Well

I would wager that the sights cost more too, and the grips are probably more expensive for whatever reason.

As the man said, you get what you pay for. The question is, should you pay for what you don't need? For me, I think I need the lower & flare & beveled mag well, so the WWII would actually COST me money by the time I ship the gun to a 'smith & back.
 

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One thought to consider on pricing from manufacturer through to retailer is that the dollars are increased at every step of the distribution chain until the consumer buys it.

For example, using any numbers since I don't know actual costs and required margins, but the principle is the same.

Imbel's cost on a standard mil-spec may be $150. They 'sell' it to Springfield at 50% margin for $300. Springfield sells it to a gunshop at 25% margin for $400. Gunshop sells it retail at 20% margin for $500.

Take the WWII model at Imbels cost of $120 and apply the same margins throughout the distribution chain and you end up with a $400 retail, hundred dollars less. A reduction of $30 in "cost" at the manufacturer.

I don't know if Springfield sells direct or sells to wholesalers who then sell to gunshops. If so, add another layer and the manufacturer difference in cost is probably less still.

Again, these are false numbers and margins can vary.
Hopefully, I did the math correctly. :eek:
 

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I don't know why it's so much cheaper, but after a trip to the range, where my WWII digested every round I sent through it without a hiccup right out of the box, I can tell it's not due to a reduction in quality. Go Springfield! I traded my XD9 on this gun, and I'm now a lifelong Springfield customer. I can't say enough about these great guns!
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Irishlad that's an interesting way of figuring it ... and my own personal version of common sense says youre probably right on the money.

I'm giving a lot of thought to a mental tossup between the WWII, the std. milspec, and a Colt 1991NRM. Tough decision, and basically a $75-100 or so jump between each, depending on vendor and opportunity. When it's between the std. mil-spec and the Colt, the Colt's an easy win because the margin between the two isn't all that much, and I think the Colt's worth the diff. But when you've got the SA WWII for ~$400, it's not such an easy call. You start getting down to nitpicky aesthetic considerations that don't really matter.


BTW Norman74, your sig line is the story of my life from my wedding day forward. One wife and two kids later, it's funny because it's true.
 

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BrianMc said:

I'm giving a lot of thought to a mental tossup between the WWII, the std. milspec, and a Colt 1991NRM. Tough decision, and basically a $75-100 or so jump between each, depending on vendor and opportunity. When it's between the std. mil-spec and the Colt, the Colt's an easy win because the margin between the two isn't all that much, and I think the Colt's worth the diff. But when you've got the SA WWII for ~$400, it's not such an easy call. You start getting down to nitpicky aesthetic considerations that don't really matter.
Couple of things to consider. One is the firing pin safety of the Colt. Much more of a chore to take out than the ILS of the Springfield, should either bother you.
That said, you could always find a used Colt....
 

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I'd love to have one with a blued barrel and bushing. Is that what these have? Springfield's web site shows a GI Mil Spec model, product code PW9108L, but with a stainless barrel.

:confused:

-Dave
 

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mr50bmg said:
I'd love to have one with a blued barrel and bushing. Is that what these have? Springfield's web site shows a GI Mil Spec model, product code PW9108L, but with a stainless barrel.

:confused:

-Dave
The picture is wrong, they are blued on the WWII.
 

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"One is the firing pin safety of the Colt. Much more of a chore to take out than the ILS of the Springfield, "

hey Norm,
are you talking about the key lock on the rear main spring housing? Didn't know they called it "ILS".
How does one change it? By just replacing it with a non lockable main spring housing?
 

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Maybe Gun manufacturers have gone the same route as bicycle manufacturers, or visa vera.

They started out with cheap reliable single speeds,and then went to multispeed bikes. Basically split into the 10 speed and mountain bike stuff. The high end tinkering started to the point that a half way ridable,durable Mtn. bike cost around 1000. Not to mention that most bikes, helmets,and some parts are year specific. After the first of the year last years model is sale tagged dirt cheap.

Single speeds are back , and custom made to the point of 700 and up !

Im happy that I bought my WW11 at close to 400. It's a great plain no frills shooter. A bargain right now that's sure to go up in stores eventually. Gun evolution at it's finest.;)
 

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i like mine so much, I think i'm gonna buy another just cause.
looks like they got an all stainless GI? in the works...anyone know when they'll be available?
 

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robino said:
"One is the firing pin safety of the Colt. Much more of a chore to take out than the ILS of the Springfield, "

hey Norm,
are you talking about the key lock on the rear main spring housing? Didn't know they called it "ILS".
How does one change it? By just replacing it with a non lockable main spring housing?
Yes, the ILS is the Internal Locking System (or some such) on the mainspring housing. If you do a search, you can come up with a list of parts that needs to be replaced to get rid of it. Evidently you have to replace a couple of parts, not just the housing itself.
 

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I figure the WWII mil-spec was priced a bit lower to compete with the Rock Island 1911 and other $300 - 400 1911s. Lets SA keep its market share without lowering price on the regular mil-spec. I prefer the features on the mil-spec myself.
 

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Prized 1911A1 - Nighthawk Custom I built while attending gunsmithing program at Montgomery CC
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Remember how popular the norinco guns were at that price? I bet that gunsmith and customizers love seeing these guns come in for upgrade! Even if it is made overseas, it's marketed by an American company.
 
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